A forum for owners of Yamaha TTR250 trail and enduro bikes!

TTRfan · Super Guru

Fitting Motrax MicroFairing indicators on rear mudguard/fender

threshold · Senior Member

TTRfan · Super Guru

I have created a pictorial guide on fitting (and re-fitting if one gets knocked off!) these indicator see here

I have bought a pair of LED Motrax MicroFairing indicators and will be fitting those when I find out which LED flasher unit to buy wink

Are you researching the LED flasher unit Les?

Brian

Gerry atric69 · Veteran Member

Just sourced some of the Motrax units. J&S have some on eBay and a company called Motoport in Eastbourne.
Link here.
Ebay item 142706959132 sorry could not get link to work.
As theses are LED will this flasher be ok or is it simpler to add a resistor ?
eBay link not working.
Foot note my TTR is in the couriers van somewhere between Peterborough and Cumbria, hope he's not frozen to death!

( update on delivery he's an hour away now)

-- Edited by Gerry atric69 on Thursday 1st of March 2018 03:53:20 PM

-- Edited by Gerry atric69 on Thursday 1st of March 2018 03:54:33 PM

Gerry atric69 · Veteran Member

Sorry my links as usual aren't working!

Moo · Senior Member

The LED ones are shockingly bad. I managed to find some old stock bulb ones in store

Gerry atric69 · Veteran Member

Now he tells me !! LOL
I will see what I can make of them.

Moo · Senior Member

You might get better results with better resistors, but mine were so faint at flashing it was hard to see

TTRfan · Super Guru

A quick heads up to UK owners.

The new MOT regulations require the centre of the indicators to be 240mm apart.

Clearly the Motrax indicators as fitted to the rear mudguard would fail so, make sure you fit your old indicators before the MOT.

What I am not sure of is as to whether a UK rider would be breaking the law with the Motrax indicators or whether it's just an MOT thing like having to have a split pin on the rear axle nut.....

Anyone know?

Brian

TTRfan · Super Guru

Found this here:

4.4.3 Compliance with requirements

You must inspect all direction indicators fitted.

Direction indicators must emit an amber light, except motorcycles first used before 1 September 1965 can have white front indicators and red rear indicators.

Some motorcycles have direction indicators combined with the position lamps. In these cases the position lamp doesnt have to switch off when the relevant direction indicator is switched on.

The precise position of direction indicators arent part of this inspection, but they must be on each side of the longitudinal axis of a solo machine. If a side car is attached, the indicators must be on opposite sides of the combination.

Mandatory direction indicators must have minimum separation distances between the illuminating surfaces of:

solo motorcycles 240mm at the front and 180mm at the rear
motorcycle combinations 400mm at both front and rear

There is no requirement to measure the separation distance and they should only be rejected if the separation distance is obviously incorrect.

Repairs to lamps must be assessed for security, colour, light output and durability.

Defect	Category
Lamp emitted colour, position or intensity not in accordance with the requirements	Major

robs · Senior Member

Damn, and I ordered some of those yesterday because I keep knocking the stock ones off. Oh well, just one more thing to switch out for the MOT then..

Sponger · Veteran Member

Phew, next job was going to be fit mine, may put that on hold and fit the originals for now then :(

dlee22 · Senior Member

It says 180mm at the rear, how far are they off? Maybe if the moter is reasonable they'll let you off if close?

ttr steve · Super Guru

Mine just went through, but he did tell me about this cry

mossproof · Super Guru

If the rears are near the bottom of the fender, and level with the tail lamp, they are approx 180mm apart. You could make some spacers from thick rubber sheet/plywood/chopping board plastic etc to move them out a bit if you're worried. If your tester fails you for this he's being a bit of an arse and/or doesn't know how much 180mm is. Change garages!

I assume "illuminating surfaces" means bulb glass or surface of the led emmitter, rather than lens surface.

Alternatively, take 'em off!!!

-- Edited by mossproof on Tuesday 7th of August 2018 10:16:46 PM

TTRfan · Super Guru

This is Trev's fail certificate - seems like they thought 240 mm for both front and rear!

MOT fail.jpeg

This photo shows my Motrax indicators.

Motrax rear spacing.jpg

If you measure between the bulbs I reckon the distance is about 200mm which would be OK biggrin

Brian

PS Trev did check the lights before he took his TTR to MOT and reckons he might have a dodgy connection coz they all worked on the way home

TTRfan · Super Guru

Found this but don't understand it disbelief

ILLUMINATING SURFACE OF A LIGHT-SIGNALLING DEVICE OTHER THAN A RETROREFLECTOR (GRE) (UN Reg. Nos. 48, 77, 87, 91, 98, 112 and 123) means the orthogonal projection of the lamp in a plane perpendicular to its axis of reference and in contact with the exterior light-emitting surface of the lamp, this projection being bounded by the edges of screens situated in this plane, each allowing only 98 per cent of the total luminous intensity of the light to persist in the direction of the axis of reference. To determine the lower, upper and lateral limits of the illuminating surface only screens with horizontal or vertical edges shall be used to verify the distance to the extreme edges of the vehicle and the height above the ground. For other applications of the illuminating surface, e.g. distance between two lamps or functions, the shape of the periphery of this illuminating surface shall be used. The screens shall remain parallel, but other orientations are allowed to be used. In the case of a light-signalling device whose illuminating surface encloses either totally or partially the illuminating surface of another function or encloses a non-lighted surface, the illuminating surface may be considered to be the light emitting surface itself. (UN Reg. Nos. 6, 7, 38, 50, 53, 65, 74, 86 and 113)

For direction-indicator lamp, stop lamp, front position lamp, rear position lamp, hazard warning signal and rear fog lamp is the orthogonal projection of the lamp in a plane perpendicular to its axis of reference and in contact with the exterior light-emitting surface of the lamp, this projection being bounded by the edges of screens situated in this plane, each allowing only 98 per cent of the total luminous intensity of the light to persist in the direction of the axis of reference. To determine the lower, upper and lateral limits of the illuminating surface, only screens with horizontal or vertical edges shall be used.

robs · Senior Member

Need to be a lawyer to decrypt that jibberish..

Thanks for all the extra info, does inspire a bit of confidence that it should be ok to use this type still.

-- Edited by robs on Wednesday 8th of August 2018 12:08:35 PM

TTRfan · Super Guru

I have emailed DVSA for advice but am not optimistic about a reply!

mossproof · Super Guru

No MOT tester I know would understand that. I have a degree in engineering and I don't get it either!
It's all a bit tenuous, but if he thought they should be 240 apart, he's not even read the simple bit properly!

JOHNYBOY · Super Guru

possible making his own rules not reading the testers manual

robs · Senior Member

I stuck my pair of these on today and they don't seem particularly bright during daytime.. did I make the wrong choice getting the smoked glass type? Or possibly incorrect (too high) resistor?

These are the resistors I ordered: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/R-G-Micro-LED-Indicator-Resistors/302714609917%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

ttboof · Super Guru

The resistors are OK they run in parallel with the light so don't change the voltage to the light

It may be as you suspect the lenses

I'm not familiar with that type of light I've settled on fitting 10w small round led day driving lights inside rubber indicators very bright

-- Edited by ttboof on Saturday 11th of August 2018 10:52:35 PM

robs · Senior Member

I've now tried the two different types of motrax flush mount indicators that I found on ebay, along with corresponding resistors. One was the "smoke" type, the other was just the normal clear ones.

As Moo pointed out earlier in the thread (which I wish I'd seen) - they are terrible, don't even bother. In daylight they are impossible to see from even a meter away, and at night they aren't much better.

Next plan is to try and retrofit some better/brighter LEDs into the housing, does anyone have any recommendations for this? TTBoof, what are you using?

Cheers,

ttboof · Super Guru

I'm using universal rubber indicators with 10w mini round day driving leds fitted in them

-- Edited by ttboof on Friday 24th of August 2018 01:24:57 PM

robs · Senior Member

Thanks ttboof, I've ordered some of these which look similar: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132719217945

Will report back with findings.

ttboof · Super Guru

Haven't tried the amber ones may order some myself

Once I took the bulb holder out of the rubber housings I've realied on the lens to do the job the other guys noticed how bright they are after dark they may even be a bit too bright nothing like an intermittent amber glow around the ttr biggrin

TTRfan · Super Guru

Apparently the new MOT is only reflecting the requirements of The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 and the 180mm limit only applies to a bike of 50cc and below.

SCHEDULE 7
PART I Requirements relating to obligatory direction indicators and to optional direction indicators to the extent specified in part ii

B)A solo motor bicycle having an engine exceeding 50 cc and first used on or after 1st April 1986

(1)Front indicators:
    300 mm

(2)Rear indicators:
    240 mm

(C)A solo motor bicycle having an engine not exceeding 50 cc and first used on or after 1st April 1986 and a pedal cycle

(1)Front indicators:
    240 mm

(2)Rear indicators:
    180 mm

I asked the DVSA to advise on what was meant by "illuminating surfaces" in the regs and sent them a photo of my Motrax indicators as a case in point. This is my question and their reply:

Q. In the case of stick-on indicators fixed either side of a rear mudguard of a solo machine, what is considered to be the “illuminating surfaces” please – is it the outside of the lens or the bulbs?

A. Further to your enquiry we have received the following information from our Vehicle Testing and Roadworthiness Department: It is the part of the lens that illuminates.

So there we have it!

Brian

greekmountains · Veteran Member

TTRfan wrote:
Found this but don't understand it
ILLUMINATING SURFACE OF A LIGHT-SIGNALLING DEVICE OTHER THAN A RETROREFLECTOR (GRE) (UN Reg. Nos. 48, 77, 87, 91, 98, 112 and 123) means the orthogonal projection of the lamp in a plane perpendicular to its axis of reference and in contact with the exterior light-emitting surface of the lamp, this projection being bounded by the edges of screens situated in this plane, each allowing only 98 per cent of the total luminous intensity of the light to persist in the direction of the axis of reference. To determine the lower, upper and lateral limits of the illuminating surface only screens with horizontal or vertical edges shall be used to verify the distance to the extreme edges of the vehicle and the height above the ground. For other applications of the illuminating surface, e.g. distance between two lamps or functions, the shape of the periphery of this illuminating surface shall be used. The screens shall remain parallel, but other orientations are allowed to be used. In the case of a light-signalling device whose illuminating surface encloses either totally or partially the illuminating surface of another function or encloses a non-lighted surface, the illuminating surface may be considered to be the light emitting surface itself. (UN Reg. Nos. 6, 7, 38, 50, 53, 65, 74, 86 and 113)
For direction-indicator lamp, stop lamp, front position lamp, rear position lamp, hazard warning signal and rear fog lamp is the orthogonal projection of the lamp in a plane perpendicular to its axis of reference and in contact with the exterior light-emitting surface of the lamp, this projection being bounded by the edges of screens situated in this plane, each allowing only 98 per cent of the total luminous intensity of the light to persist in the direction of the axis of reference. To determine the lower, upper and lateral limits of the illuminating surface, only screens with horizontal or vertical edges shall be used.

What a load of ox!!

Coley · Member

Good news, the UK MOT rules were changed again after an older rule change caused type approved vehicles to fail...

MOT regs (2021) require the distance between indicators to be at least 240mm front, and 180mm rear. (Or 160mm rear for mopeds).

Clause 4.4.3

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-motorcycles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment

Coley · Member

Anyone found a good low profile rear indicator?

I found 'Bike it' indicators £14

Tottalyttrs option is currently out of stock and I am after one that sticks out as little as possible.

I am keen to change the old ones which are too wide and bent. They stickout even further now I have a rack.

Cheers.

TTRfan · Super Guru

Coley wrote:
Good news, the UK MOT rules were changed again after an older rule change caused type approved vehicles to fail...
MOT regs (2021) require the distance between indicators to be at least 240mm front, and 180mm rear. (Or 160mm rear for mopeds).
Clause 4.4.3 - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-motorcycles/4-lamps-reflectors-and-electrical-equipment

Excellent news - thanks for that! Mtrax indicators on the rear mudguard now legal again

These on eBay are cheap enough?

Brian

Rossyboys · Veteran Member

ttboof wrote:
I'm using universal rubber indicators with 10w mini round day driving leds fitted in them

-- Edited by ttboof on Friday 24th of August 2018 01:24:57 PM

How much did the copper water pipe elbow reduce noise. thanks

Rossyboys · Veteran Member

ttboof wrote:
I'm using universal rubber indicators with 10w mini round day driving leds fitted in them

-- Edited by ttboof on Friday 24th of August 2018 01:24:57 PM

How much did the copper water pipe elbow reduce noise. thanks