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Post Info TOPIC: Kick starter information


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Kickstarter assembly???
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barra8 wrote:

I came across an interesting fact when doing that,not sure if it's already been mentioned though??

The 1992-1999 clutch plates are the same as 1999-2006 wink

The boss and basket are different but if you changed the clutch basket,clutch boss and fitted the 1999=2006 clutch cover you would be able to upgrade from 6 to 7 clutch plates and get the higher oil volume at the same time. Casing fits no problem along with the rest.biggrin

Also if people with 6 plates could just go to www.boats.net and order 6 of the 1999-2006 clutch friction plates, 6 pressure plates and it would be no problems provided you have'nt used anymore than about three sets of clutch plates and file the groves on the basket flat. Also the clutch springs are the same so would make it cheap to buy.


It is true the plates are the same for all models and clearly the basket has to be deeper to accomodate the extra plates on the later TTRs.

Are you sure the springs are the same? I stock extra strong springs and there are different part numbers for 6 and 7 plate set ups.

I must make it clear again that the early TTR's clutch cover is not deep enough to properly clear the 7-plate basket. I know because I tried the conversion and the basket fingers rub on the case.

When buying the metal clutch plates (not often needed as its the friction plates that usually wear first) I am fairly sure that you buy one less than the friction plates confuse

I am not sure there is a great advantage in upgrading the clutch as I am not aware of any clutch problems from the 6-plate set up.

Brian

PS This clutch info may get lost under the current heading of the thread.



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Yeah sure am sure,both the 1992-1999 and 1999-2006 clutch springs are 41.4 measured on with a micrometer allowing .6 mm for wear and tear  (one was closer to 41.5 the newer looking 2003). The spec has to be the same for both eg. 42mm

You could check that with new springs but if it's that close to 42mm then i'd say 99.9% sure they are the same.

Also when i said you could upgrade to the 1999-2006 7 clutch plates i was saying that the 1999-2006 cover fits the 1992-1999 bottom end case. So if you used all the 1999-2006 stuff eg. basket,boss and cover on the 1992-1999 it would fit fine.

Another advantage as mentioned would be the higher oil capacity.
 

Also with clutch springs you can fit washers to make up for the spring height,i have done this before and it worked as good as new ones. Not sure if they would last as long but it lasted another set of plates for me. Would have lasted longer i think but i like new stuff and staying in spec biggrin


 I was reading up on your retro-fitting a kickstarter thread,very good Brian. Hope  7mm sticking out from the casing will be ok for the kickstarter spring lug as it's already in lol biggrin

Thanks Brian for your help,maybe we should all call you Brain and give Brian a break???biggrin

Cheers mate bleh


 

 



-- Edited by barra8 on Saturday 11th of August 2012 12:16:55 AM

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Kick starter information
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 Hey martyn,

                    I used a drill and got mine apart biggrin My spring is 11mm excactly and i have checked it three times (did'nt change though lol)

                    Also my ball bearing is 6mm which means a mountain bike back axle bearing would be a perfect replacement

                     Maybe yours is a little more tired than you think yawn

 Jarrah.



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RE: Kickstarter assembly???
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What is the diameter of the shaft that goes through the casing? 

I have found that the kickstarts off the later blue models will fit the earlier white TTRs no problem. I have fitted them myself to both my brother's OE and another mate's.

Could your parts be off a TT250 perhaps?

Some pictures here to compare http://ttr250.com/TTR_retrofitting_kickstart.htm

Brian



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The shaft is 15mm and now that i looked at the end maybe it won't fit because it has a bit of damage at the end of it.... Does'nt seem to be out of spec though??confuse

Part is definately off a ttr250 it was on my old ttr motor..

Thanks brian i will do some more investigating and get back to you

 


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Seems to be 14mm inside the casing,hard to measure though blankstare

I'm going to take the clutch off and see if the intermediate gear  is the sameconfuse



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Very odd - I used two different calipers to be sure to be sure and the plain part of the shaft that goes through the seal on the clutch cover measures 17mm confuse

I am measuring the shaft indicated by the blue arrow in the pic below:

Kickstart kit LCDa.jpg



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biggrinI think your right Brian,

                                  My intermitent gear fits well bit of play back and forth (wobbles when wobbled :) but i'm guessing that's normal.

My casing does seem to be 14mm but i think it's just a hard spot to measure.

The kickstarter shaft is out of spec though so it must be the problem (i'm hoping :).

A second hand shaft or mechanism will have to do for now,doesnt seem to be anything wrong with it other than the shaft though.

Was very happy looking at the clutches i might add very nice evileye

I am going to take my chances and buy this... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1980-Yamaha-IT250-starter-gear-assembly-kick-kickstart-/190425718770?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5641dff2

It looks so similar and if it does fit hey there is so many of them online i could buy them cheap and sell them as a ttr250 assembly and make a fortune lol jks biggrin



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TTRfan wrote:

Very odd - I used two different calipers to be sure to be sure and the plain part of the shaft that goes through the seal on the clutch cover measures 17mm confuse

I am measuring the shaft indicated by the blue arrow in the pic below:

Kickstart kit LCDa.jpg


 It's not that part that doesn't fit it is the other side of the shaft,i retember banging on it with a hammer while it was in the bike to weld it on.

Must be why lol. If you could measure the other side for me it would be of great help though..

My shaft that side is 17mm also though... Thanks mate your a legend evileye



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barra8 wrote:

I am going to take my chances and buy this... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1980-Yamaha-IT250-starter-gear-assembly-kick-kickstart-/190425718770?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5641dff2

It looks so similar and if it does fit hey there is so many of them online i could buy them cheap and sell them as a ttr250 assembly and make a fortune lol jks biggrin


Can you get them to measure shaft diameters front and rear plus give you the overall lengths? It would be safer before you buy...... 



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Clutch springs
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Part number for 6-plate clutch springs is 90501-23391-00 or, for stronger ones, EBC CSK49

Part number for 7-plate clutch springs is 90501-23763-00 or, for stronger ones, EBC CSK014

Brian



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starter motor and kickstart!
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hi, ive just bought a ttr250 1994, and it clunks and bangs when starting and stopping! so, after reading up on this site about all the problems with starter motors on these bikes i got thinking, why dont people do away with the starter motor and just use a kick start? i think that it is what i want to do, is there any reason why i cant do this? if i can, does anyone have a kickstart mechanism that i could buy? thanks, pete



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kickstart kit?
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hi, im after a kick start mechanism to retro fit to my ttr250 1994! can anyone help? 07581012523 pete. thanks



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RE: starter motor and kickstart!
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Hey Pete,

               Of course it can be done,this thread should help ....... http://ttr250.com/TTR_retrofitting_kickstart.htm

All you have to do is unbolt the sprag clutch (bolts onto rotor) and use it without.

      

Finding a kickstart kit might be a bit hard though but if you find one cheap enough let me know. This is all i have found so far... http://yshop.yamaha-motor.com.au/products/gytr-kick-start-kit-0

 



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thanks barra8, i guess ill start saving up! do you know if useing the starter in this condition will damage anything else or is it only going to affect the starter components that i would then remove to go over to just useing the kickstart? pete 



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If you remove the sprag clutch and electric start assembly there will be nothing to damage so it would be fine..

You will have to fit a plug (welch plug) 30mm into where the electric start motor went before removing it


Jarrah.



 



-- Edited by barra8 on Tuesday 21st of August 2012 02:25:43 PM

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ok, cool, sounds nice and easy! just got to get a kick starter now!!! thanks jarrah

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One of the joys of the TTR is the electric start.

After dropping or, God forbid, drowning the bike or, towards the end of a long day’s trail ride when you are tired, it is a Godsend.

Also, if you are on sidling ground, it isn’t always easy to balance to give a good kick.

A new sprag clutch costs about the same as a s/h kick start kit (which are getting increasingly hard to source) so is worth considering.

It would also make a TTR easier to sell if it has a working electric start.

Just my two pennies worth.

Brian



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RE: kickstart kit?
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You may hit lucky on E-bay - they do come up at times.

Failing that, you could try a local bike breaker on the off-chance of them having one.

I take it that you have read the article HERE regarding fitting advice.

Good luck.

Martyn



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Kick starter information
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After all this interest in kickstart levers I decided to have a look at the one on the TTR I am currently restoring.

The ball bearing was well past its sell by date! See pic below of old alongside the new 5.5mm ball bearing.

 Kickstart ballbearing.jpg

The 5.5mm ball was fairly tight in the socket so I am pretty sure its the correct size.

I stretched the spring a bit to make sure it would work properly but may look at getting in a small supply of new ones although the nearest I can find to the size look expensive - see http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-x-Helical-Compression-Spring-8mm-Long-Outside-Diameter-4-8mm-Y8-/130744671635?pt=UK_CPV_Aviation_SM&hash=item1e70fd5d93#ht_2673wt_1067

Greased it all up and put it back and it works much better now biggrin

Brian

 

 



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Well i have checked it about twenty times and it still did'nt change.

I might add that my micrometer is very accurate and have measured things perfectly in the past and had no trouble.

Wonder if this is because the kickstart lever is different on Australian models?

My spring is 11mm also and checked it probably more than twenty times?

I even measured with two different micrometers and still the same ???

Not one sign of a drill been anywhere near it either.

The only drill that has been near it seems to be the drill i used to crack the impossibly tight screw.

Well i don't have a clue now why mine is bigger and there aint no online site that i know of to check this.

Guess i'll reside and say MINE IS BIGGER THAN YOUR NER NER HA HA JKS old matey's, (don't get your knickers twisted) smile

Maybe someone in the Uk could measure the diameter of their kickstart boss shaft?

 



-- Edited by barra8 on Tuesday 28th of August 2012 03:00:06 AM

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hey mate i live in nsw australia as well and my "ner ner" spring is only 7.9mm the same as martyns?

i measured the spring again to be sure and its confirmed to be 7.9mm.



-- Edited by yamahaTT250R on Tuesday 28th of August 2012 03:21:43 AM

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does a 125cc ttr kickstarter fit my ttr250?
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Not sure if your talking about the kickstart lever or assembly? I would have to say that the kickstart lever would fit 90% sure. Maybe someone can confirm this?

Another one that comes up on my watch on ebay 'list' is the ttr225 as alot of other parts fit so can't see why the kickstart would'nt.

Easiest way is get them to measure the diameter of the shaft. This does not always work though as some people just aint got it when it comes to measuring smile

Jarrah.

 



-- Edited by barra8 on Tuesday 28th of August 2012 08:55:21 AM

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Oh i read your other post. Sounds like your in the same situation as me but i only need the kickstart shaft myself. Good luck on that one mate. If you find anything please be sure to let me know. I do know where to get the whole brand new kit for roughly AU $470.00 or something ridiculas like that lol so if you want that let me know.

Cheers,

          Jarrah.



-- Edited by barra8 on Tuesday 28th of August 2012 09:01:47 AM

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RE: Kick starter information
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I had better remeasure mine lol i Swear to god it was 6mm though lol, (maybe i'm wrong or it has been fixed before?) smile

Jarrah.



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does a 125cc ttr kickstarter fit my ttr250?
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i see that there are alot of 125 ind 90 kickstarters for sale online, does anyone know if either would fit my 250? i thought that often the same bottom end is used up to 300 or so.

thanks. pete



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RE: Kick starter information
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barra8 wrote:

Maybe someone in the Uk could measure the diameter of their kickstart boss shaft?


I got a couple of levers on the bench Jarrah. Two different types so will be interesting to see if the internals are the same. 

Brian



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Awesome thanks Brian,

                                 I have a loncin 250 kickstart lever here. It fits at the spline so works no problem. Although it has a different size kickstart boss. Not sure what size but bout to measure. I think its an interesting subject as there aint alot of kickstart parts for ttr anymore cry

Jarrah.



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Hope you did'nt have as much trouble as i did Brian while removing the ball bearing. The loncin 250 one is stuck but may have it free in about by next year at this rate lol.smile

The kickstart boss shaft  is 14.98mm in diameter. The ball is 5.5 mm but cant get the ball out to check the spring yet.

Jarrah.



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How does the TTR kickstart work?
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Sorry Brian....You were right by saying that the gears mesh. The spring pushes on the ratchet wheel which locks in & turns the kickstarter gear.

So yes.............the gears are meshed.

...............

Jarrah.



-- Edited by barra8 on Sunday 30th of December 2012 01:29:46 PM

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Let me see if i can explain it better.

The ratchet wheel is pushed against the starter gear by a spring.

In the start position the ratchet wheel is held free of the starter gear by the ratchet guide .

When the lever is pushed down it pushes the ratchet free so it turns the motor until it reaches the furtherest point.

The outer return spring (torsion) returns the ratchet back to the start postion.

The ratchet wheel ''ratchets'' back to the starting position & is guided back out of the way of the starter gear by the rachet guide & stopped by the ratchet stopper..

Hope that's understandable?

All in all yes the starter gear & intermediate gear are meshed.

Not sure if the below will help or confuse you ??

Untitled.png

 

................

Jarrah.


 

 



-- Edited by barra8 on Sunday 30th of December 2012 04:52:41 PM

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Excellent Jarrah! I have only just seen your post and had done some detective work myself in the meanwhile and you are spot on - as usual wink

The gears stay meshed at all times. The ratchet wheel tucks under the ratchet stop when the kickstart returns to its rest position so that the ratchet is disengaged - simples biggrin

I will post my pics anyways coz I done 'em!

Kickstart_kit.jpg

Kickstart_parts_needed.jpg

Kickstart parts 009.jpg

Kickstart ratchet mechanism.jpg



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I am suffering from post-Xmas brain fade disbelief

I have been asked by a Canadian owner how the kickstart mechanism works and, in particular, is the kickstart gear supposed to stay meshed (in gear) at all times or should it spring away from the intermediate gear after kick down?

I am pretty sure it stays meshed as there is no mechanism for it to move away. My recollection is that the gears just spin with the engine once it has started.

It's cold, damp and miserable here in SW UK at the moment so am being lazy!

Brian



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Kickstart lever restraint!
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It's comments like these that make me happy i do'nt have one. lol (last words before having to roll start :)

It reminds me of times when i skinned my shin on it when it fell down going through scrub. lol. Also when it came off completely & i had to go back along my trail to find it. Once found it was off to the welder AGAIN lol.biggrin

Good work Brian,that should hold that BAD BOY up wink

..............................

Jarrah.



-- Edited by barra8 on Saturday 26th of January 2013 11:31:06 PM

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A nice simple and cheap modification that I made to my 325 to (a) stop the kickstart lever flopping out and catching in my leggings and (b) cut out the wear that can happen on the botton pivot shaft of the lever through constant jiggling back and forth.

All you need is a cable tie and a strong band of rubber. I cut up old inner tubes into bands and keep a few on the bike for emergencies wink

Kickstart retainer.jpg



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looks great (simple+cheap+effective = good)

now all that is needed for kick-start lever perfection is a little bit of modification so the lever folds in closer to the frame.
it is kind of annoying how the lever can sometimes get in the way because its sticks out more than many other dirt bikes.
this is a separate issue from its tendency to flop about (which is solved nicely by the rubber band).

I'm not personally bothered by it enough to start bending, filing etc, but it is a minor nuisance.

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RE: TTR 250 lever kickstart assembly interchangable with xt???
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Just wondering if anyone knows what other kickstart levers fit the TTR. I have got the 2005 engine with lever shaft etc but no lever as yet. Thanks

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If anyone is wondering if this fits still- IT DOES NOT FIT!

Been there, tried that- now fitted to my mates xt225 serow.

Jarrah.



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Broken kickstart shaft
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Hi everyone, I've just got hold of a kickstart kit but the shaft has sheared on the lever (outside) can anyone tell me if this can be fixed? I don't have the broken part of the shaft or the lever. Are the parts still available and can anyone tell me what the part number is please? Failing that can anone tell mw how long the shaft should be, what it's made of and what lever will fit please?

Cheers  Mud



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Other than welding it there is no way to fix it that I know of. Welding the kickstarter to the shaft would be hard without blowing the seal though. You would need to cool it down with water and only weld small welds and build it up (which weakens the weld).

 The part number for the shaft is 4GY-15660-00-00 but unfortunately is not available to buy separately (that I know of)). no

Jarrah



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TT-R250M wrote:

 The part number for the shaft is 4GY-15660-00-00 but unfortunately is not available to buy separately (that I know of)). no

 


The shaft is available from Fowlers - or at least they list it - but costs a massive £178 retail cry



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Mud, please help us.

I'm a bit insure which of your kickstart shaft is broken. confuse

Is it the splined shaft that sticks  through the casing

Kickstart_parts_needed.jpg

OR, is it the shaft of the kickstart that fits on the splines

Fitting_kickstart 015a.jpg

Nevertheless, whichever is broken won't be readily available as new.

It would perhaps be best to look around breaker's yards and collect the bits required.

Martyn



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mud


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Thanks for the replies, it's the splined shaft that sticks out of the engine.

Cheers Mud

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Non returning Kick start
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Just ought my TTR and had a new MOT done. Only had to repalce the bearings in the rear suspecnsion. On arrival home thought I'd try out the kick start which was fine except the kick starter did  not spring back to allow a second attempt.

 

Two questions what is the problem?  I'm guessing at the kick start return spring and 2 can this be replaced with the engine in the frame. Any other suggestions welcomed.



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sounds like the spring has broken or come unattached....
just lay the bike over & take the side case off....
get a new gasket first... the old one will most lightly tear
removeing the case..

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See http://ttr250.com/TTR_retrofitting_kickstart.htm

Maybe try rocking the TTR back and forth with it in gear to see if it returns?

Brian



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I have a friend that has had lots of problems with the notch on his crank case where the spring locks in on a couple of his old air cooled YZ490's. I'm not sure if the set up is similar, but it may be worth looking into.

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Terrence R wrote:

I have a friend that has had lots of problems with the notch on his crank case where the spring locks in on a couple of his old air cooled YZ490's. I'm not sure if the set up is similar, but it may be worth looking into.


 The TTR250 is not the same. It has a locking pin that is installed into the crankcase, rather than using a lug on the crankcase. Much better idea IMO.

That said, it is not entirely impossible to snap the pin from the crankcase but is highly unlikely in normal circumstances. I think the problem will be the spring broken or is not returning as it should.

Jarrah 



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Kick start return spring
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I've have a search which hasn't turned up anything so thought I'd ask... does anyone know where I can get a replacement kick start return spring or knows of a spring from another bike that can be adapted?

Just picked up my bike today and haven't had a chance yet to pull it apart and check the spring against ebay so just trying to save time and get something ordered.

Many thanks,

Mark



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Hello Mark and welcome to the forum handshake.gif

AFAIK- the TTR250 does not lend its kickstart to other models or makes other than other TTR250's.  I do not have, nor can I find the kickstart return spring part number so I cannot be sure though. If I find it or someone posts it, I could check for you.

Just keep your fingers crossed that the return spring lug has not broken out of the casing, it has happened to a few but not all that likely unless the PO had huge legs and an impatient personality to go with it lol. biggrin

Jarrah

 



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