A forum for owners of Yamaha TTR250 trail and enduro bikes!

Thanks everyone. I will store all this for the future. I think the problem is solved: fitted a new side stand switch and it now starts! The weird thing is occasionally I have to press the starter switch a couple of times before anything happens, but I am now much happier.

Hi

I have been doing a lot of maintenance on my bike lately, and have spent quite a few pounds. Now my starter motor has packed up, shredded gears, done the sprag and large idler gear, then turned my attention to the starter. A new starter from Yamaha is over £300 +, pattern part from china £120, as I have spent so much and am on a budget, I done some research and found this....http://www.dirtybiking.co.uk/features/tech_stuff_2005_starter_rebuild.htm

I found a starter on ebay for £20 with free postage, when the part was delivered I put both on the bench and reflected on Adrian's article. I really found it hard to get myself motivated to do that much work, and started to look at them closely, what I noticed was that they were very similar. I spent the next hour trying to think of ideas, then had a eureka moment.

The only difference of the starters was that the fazer one was 12mm longer and the mounting bracket and spigot for the electric were different and in the wrong place (would hit the cylinder head), what I came up with is this. I took the back part of the ttr starter off, and swapped it with the fazer one, drilled out holes 12mm from the centres of the original ones, so that the starter could move back 12mm. Then I cut of the old holes, took a file to the raised bit's and replaced them later with washers, to make the correct position. I had to file a bit of the back of the starter to get the bolts to fit properly, this is obvious if you have a go at this. Then I bolted the modified ttr one onto the back of the fazer starter and fitted it to the bike!

Once I had worked out what to do, the actual work took 30mins

I have nearly got the rest of the bike back together and will let you know what happens next, ie if it STARTS!!!!

Here are the photo's of the work.

g

If you are going to do this, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU TAKE THE STARTER GEAR COVER OFF AND INSPECT THAT THE STARTER PINION GEAR IS WORKING ON THE WHOLE SURFACE OF THE IDLER GEAR. If it isn't, you will have to adjust the fixing holes and move the starter motor inwards a bit!

Anyway if this starts the bike, it is a very cheap way of fixing a starter and does not take too long..

Hope that you at least enjoy my report, if nothing else.

Cheers

Steve

Excellent stuff Steve 

Looking forward to hearing how it goes tomorrow.

I hope John isn't too disappointed now that he hasn't got the machining project to work on 

Brian

PS Just bought a Fazer starter off eBay - need to have a go myself......... I am guessing there might be an unexplained surge in demand for them.....

Hi Brian

I should have kept it a secret

The model I bought.... fzr 600 4jh 1994-1996.

Not sure if the others will fit.

Good luck, and if you need to ask the expert

Steve

love posts like this! Good job steve, very resourceful of you.

done some digging and that starter motor assembly part number is identical on all the bikes listed below... hope that adds to the great information already posted.

Hello all,

Had a problem just today with the start switch and thought I would share my solution with others. The starter motor would not start no matter how much I tried pressing the switch. At the start I was not getting anything, no noise, nothing. The fuse was not blown and the battery terminals seemed tight. After awhile of pressing the switch to try to get a contact I would occasionally get a clicking noise coming from the starter relay.

So I took the fuel tank off to access the switch connector block. It is a four pin connector block with AC wires in one side (blue wires) and DC in the other (brown and a red with black stripe). I set my multimeter to the AC (alternating current) setting in the 200-V range and turned the ignition switch to the On position. I first tested the wire with a white stripe to see if I had a power feed from the battery. To do this I used the red multimeter probe to ''probe'' the back of the connector block (while it was still connected) and grounded the other negative multimeter probe to the engine bolt (that holds the decompression lever in, if fitted). The result was 26.9-VAC so I knew I was getting power from the battery. I then tested the other side of the switch (receiving side). To do this I probed the blue wire from the back of the connector block and pressed the starter button. Just as I thought I was getting a very low reading of 0.1-0.3 VAC. I knew it was the switch from this test and thought it may need resoldering as I had fixed it once before. It turns out all I had to do was take the switch apart and clean it. Very easy!

Problem solved.

Jarrah

Hi

I have had a problem with my starter, shredded the pinion and damaged the idler gear Post-mortem report is this............ When I measured and drilled the holes, for the new position of the starter mounting bracket I thought that was ok, I found out that the starter motor wasn't in far enough and was only engaged half way on the idler gear. If you are going to do this, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU TAKE THE COVER OF AND INSPECT THAT THE STARTER PINION GEAR IS WORKING ON THE WHOLE SURFACE OF THE IDLER GEAR. You may have to move it forward a bit!

Steve

cesar wrote:

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yeah. its fitted on TTR, its %100 same, i have also checked brush kit and armature... all is same. paid only 50$ and job done. its 3rd day and no problem, working good, not noisy

cesar

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 Nice work!

Thanks for posting the results!

Jarrah

Excellent, have you checked the starter pinion is working on the whole of the large idler gear? Result if it bolts on with no extra work well done.

hanzo wrote:

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well done ceasar glad to hear it all worked nice find.I got to admit I was a bit sceptical it was going to fit ok but obviously it does nice work

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ttr steve wrote:

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Excellent, have you checked the starter pinion is working on the whole of the large idler gear? Result if it bolts on with no extra work well done.

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no any extra work, just take and tightening bolts. its all, remove exhaust pipe, oil hoses and chain tensioner... 10 min job than get start and run away!

Not good!

I don't think the missing washers are causing the problem but they should be fitted. The part number is  296-13147-00 and you should be able to get them mail order from MotoWard or Fowlers - or save postage by buying them from your local Yamaha dealer.

Something is preventing the starter pinion meshing properly with the starter gear. The bush that supports the bearing that the large starter gear sits on runs directly in the crankcase and cover housings. Is the bush a good fit or could some of the swarf from the damaged pinions have got in and damaged the housings - or possibly the needle roller bearing itself?

Is the generator cover OK and not cracked which would allow the gear to go out of alignment under load?

Brian

G'day All,

My '94 TTR Raid's starter will only operate when the gearbox is in neutral. Is this something 'they all do' ??

Cheers Will.

If you find the above problem with the relay clicking but nothing else then you more than likely have a faulty brush.

Rather than forking out for a new motor, you can strip the old one down in situ without having to go through the lengthy and difficult process of removing it from the bike.

First remove the starter motor gear cover and gear, gear lever, then the magneto cover to reveal the starter motor. Unscrew the two bolts and pull the front casing from the starter motor, slide the shaft out to reveal the brush plate at the back. Unscrew the connector and remove the plate.

Mine had been leaking water through the seal and had seized the upper brush. I freed up the brush and put everything back together.

The whole job took about 3 hours and saved me £120 for a Chinese starter motor and a lot more for a Yamaha one.

See here for the standard way of removing a starter from the TTR without removing the cam chain tensioner which saves a lot of work!

That said, I watched noeyedear (Adrian) use the generator cover removal procedure to change a starter motor and it's very tempting    The first part of the sprag clutch replacement procedure will gave the access required - see here

Brian

The Honda CBF250 and CBX250 Twister models use the same starter motor as the TTR apparently!

1st one of CBF250

2nd one of TTR250

Brian

Tengo colocado un motor de honda tornado/ twister 250cc en mi ttr; solo que la salida del + no esta para arriba asi que puse la parte trasera vieja del motor de arranque del ttr y SOLUCIONADO.

Translated

I have placed a motor tornado / twister 250cc honda in my ttr; only that the output is not up so i put the old rear of the engine starter and ttr SOLVED.

ttr steve wrote:

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Didn't someone put on the forum a better way of doing this thought it was something to do with a Honda starter motor Am I dreaming it or where has it gone

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Modifying a CBR starter motor to fit a TTR250. I found this little gem in my archive. A bit of a twist on the Fazer motor adaption 

See here

Is this the one you remembered Steve?

Brian

This may be of interest to someone regarding a replacement starter motor,

Recently my starter packed up and i needed a replacement so i removed it from the bike

and took it along to a bike breaker near me in Cork to see if any yamaha starters were similar

to the ttr starter. What i found was that the starter motor from a yamaha majesty yp250 is exactly

the same length as the ttr starter motor, it spins the correct way and to make it fit the ttr what you 

need to do is swap the rear mounting case from the ttr starter over to the majesty starter and you

have an exact match for the ttr complete with a good pinion shaft. It is a simple process to swap

the end plates over and the starters can be picked up relatively cheap, i paid €70.00 euro for a couple

of working starters and i have since fitted it to my bike and it is working fine. The production year

for both of the starters that i bought were 2000 and 2002 from what i was told. It may be of use to someone 

if you get stuck for a starter. The exact description of the starter when advertised  was for YAMAHA MAJESTY 250 STARTER MOTOR YP YP250 02

Starter motor brush sets now available from Totally TTRs - see here

Brian