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Morning all....Just had the TTR MOT'd and looked over...turns out i have a small oil leak coming from the lower front left corner of the engine as you look at it front on.

Appears i need a new Base gasket to solve this and it could be up to £300>£400 to replace (Yamaha main dealer in Knebworth). The chap was saying that i may as well replace the piston rings while the head's off which would nudge it nearer the £400 mark...

Any thoughts? Advice? Help!!!



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What a shame. hmm

Mind you, this is the first time I've ever heard of an MoT failure due to a "small oil leak" from an engine and I'd be tempted to go elsewhere for the MoT if it happened to me.

On checking the MoT Inspection Manual - Class 1 motorcycles, the only "oil leak" mentioned is in connection with suspension components.

A small oil leak from the lower left corner of your enine shouldn't be a cause for concern (IMO) as far as an MoT goes. confuse

Have you checked where the leak actually is - there are oil lines, banjo connections and such in that vicinity which may need checking?

If it's definitely the gasket that's causing the leak then it will be necessary to remove the cylinder head and barrel to get to it. If you're going that far then it would be only sensible to check everything else at the same time. wink

It would be silly replacing only the gasket, reassembling it all and then have to repeat the process in a few days/weeks to renew piston rings, timing chain, valve seals, etc, etc.

Martyn



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Martyn...the oil leak wasnt part of the MOT..i just asked them to look at it while it was in there...
There are no pipes leaking and you can see the oil seeping from the area....i've cleaned it..run the engine and sadly watched the oil seep out again...
I'm going to have the piston rings replaced and all of the other gaskets at the same time...I may have the cam chain done but to be honest, the bikes not rattley so i may not bother...
I've had a definative back on cost...£350 all in inc labour...ouch...

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Ah - clarity - I read your post and presumed the MoT was refused because of an oil leak. Has the bike passed the MoT then? confuse

Have you considered a DIY approach to cure the leak? It's not that difficult for an owner to do and would be cheaper than the quoted £350. aww

HERE is a link to cylinder head removal/replacement advice and there's only the cylinder to remove after that.

Full gasket sets for the job are available for £23 + p&p HERE

I'm sure you will find lots of support for any procedures you may find difficult. wink

Martyn

 

 

 



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Hi Neil

Bad luck on the leak although I have to say that it is rare for the base gasket to leak. Maybe a build up of pressure in the sump for some reason - maybe the breather is blocked? If there is a blockage and you free it then maybe the leaking will stop.

If you do have to replace the base gasket then, if you are methodical, it is a job within the scope of the average owner. The Yamaha manual is superb and supported by a number of "show and tell" threads linked on here.

You will need a head & base gasket set at the very least but it would make sense, as Martyn says, to replace the rings if the bore looks OK plus to decoke the head, clean up the valves and replace the valve stem oil seals at the same time. All of these parts would cost about £60.

None of this is madly difficult although, if you haven't tinkered before, it might be worth asking a mechanically competent mate to give a hand.

Brian

 



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Martyn/Brian, thanks both for taking the time to reply and to give thought to my problems! The biggest problem i Have is that I'm "time poor" at the moment, I'd love to attempt the repair myself but with a hectic job and young family my spare time is desperately short....it would take me 4 months not 4 hours!!!!!
Brian , ill send you a pm regarding some parts.
Thanks again.

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Neil, Martin at Torque Racing in Stotfold will do it far cheaper than that. The man knows his onions. (Paris Dakar mechanic) also a whizz on setting suspension up. Charges are vert very reasonable.

I'll text you his number if you like. Say Ed the TV man sent you.

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My base gasket has been leaking for quite a while now so I've finally got round to ordering the gaskets.  It's been losing only about a capfull of oil per ride, and since I pressure wash the bike after each ride I've never really worried too much about it. 

Are there any other detrimental effects on a four stroke with a blowing gasket?  Eg performance?

Lee



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It must take quite a bit of pessure to blow the base gasket. Gotta be a blocked breather or worn rings allowing a lot of "blow by".

Brian



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Thanks - if it is the rings, that will be apparent when I lift the cylinder.  Where is the breather located?



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The breather pipe comes off the rocker cover on top of the head.

It's item 17 in the image

Image2.jpg

Martyn



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On some of the older TTR engines the breather pipe attached to an outlet on the RH crankcase as shown in pic below. This outlet is blanked off on later models and the breather outlet is in the cam cover.

Crankcases4a.jpg

Was your outlet just open to the elements or had it been plugged?



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Thanks for the diagram.  It turns out my bike has no breather pipe fitted hence I couldn't find it!



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Bingo, found it!  Yes this is the earlier model with it on the crankcase.

Cheers

Lee



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Excellent news! Was it clear?

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Yes, breather is clear.  I'll do a compression test which ought to give an idea as to the condition of the rings, and then strip it down to change the gaskets.



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Right then, my base gasket has been leaking oil for a few months - not much, but enough to be a pain.  I've had the bike for a year and knew nothing about it's history as I bought it from a dealer who had taken it in PX.  The breather was clear, so I expected rings to be the problem.

So today I set about taking the cylinder off.  Luckily none of the bolts had been mullered by any of the previous 8 owners which was encouraging.  The hardest bit was getting the exhaust header pipe off the bike - must be a knack to it to get it to clear the frame, but it came off in the end just before the angle grinder came out.

The two interior bolts that hold the cylinder on were not done up - not even finger tight, which I am guessing is the cause of the base gasket blowing.  Everything else came off easy, and the top end was in as new condition.  The camshafts were as new.  What was a surprise though was that the piston and rings actually were brand new.  No wear at all - still a shiny polished finish.  The cylinder was showing fresh hone marks as well.  So I am guessing the previous owner had all this work done just prior to selling it, but whoever did it forgot to tighten all the bolts.  The piston was marked up "XC" - is that an aftermarket piston?  More good news was that all valve clearances were spot on.

Bunged it all back together with new gaskets, and just taken it for a spin - good as new!

All in all, the job was just over 4 hours in total, and went better than expected!

 

 

 

 



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Welll done. Well sorted. worship.gif  number1.gif

If you put your address up I'll bring my TTR (and a few more) for you to do. biggrin

It's nice to have a success. smile

I presume you made a saving on the original £350 quote.

Martyn



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burton500 wrote:

Bunged it all back together with new gaskets, and just taken it for a spin - good as new!

All in all, the job was just over 4 hours in total, and went better than expected!


 Result wink - and well done for giving it a go!

Brian



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Cubber wrote:

Welll done. Well sorted. worship.gif  number1.gif

If you put your address up I'll bring my TTR (and a few more) for you to do. biggrin

It's nice to have a success. smile

I presume you made a saving on the original £350 quote.

Martyn


Cost was about £30 for the gaskets.  It was "hertsrider" who got the £350 quote.  I guess I must be in the next county (essex)?

Perhaps bring it over on a trailer? Otherwise have a go yourself as no special tools needed.

Lee

 



-- Edited by burton500 on Sunday 10th of March 2013 12:00:56 PM

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You are right, Lee. Sorry for my presumption that you had the quotation. confuse

At least it should illustrate the saving that Neil will be able to make if he decides to explore DIY. wink

I think I've decided to fettle my TTR myself and save trailer time/cost. Thanks for the offer. aww   (I was joking!) winksmilebiggrin

Martyn



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burton500 wrote:
Cubber wrote:

Welll done. Well sorted. worship.gif  number1.gif

If you put your address up I'll bring my TTR (and a few more) for you to do. biggrin

It's nice to have a success. smile

I presume you made a saving on the original £350 quote.

Martyn


Cost was about £30 for the gaskets.  It was "hertsrider" who got the £350 quote.  I guess I must be in the next county (essex)?

Perhaps bring it over on a trailer? Otherwise have a go yourself as no special tools needed.

Lee

 



-- Edited by burton500 on Sunday 10th of March 2013 12:00:56 PM


 Fair play Lee...i'm pretty 'time poor' so impossible to find 4hrs flat to do the job myself....young family and demanding job don't let me have 4 mins to myself...let alone 4 hours!!! I'd love to have saved the £300 odd though it has to be said!!!

Should get mine back tomorrow, the valve clearences were checked and they're within tollerence, the piston and bore were in great shape so i'm hoping she'll run like a dream when i collect her!!!



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Delighted to say the bike is back and is running very sweetly indeed...the mechanic who worked on it said he was fearing the worst when opening up the engine as its a 19yr old bike....he was really shocked to see what great condition the engine was inside!!! He's only seen 2 TTR's in the last few years and really enjoyed working on the bike.
All the work was done and i must say, the engine sounds a lot smoother and quieter, on tickover and on the revs....it feels great knowing that all the internals are in good order and i've breathed new life into the old motor!! Many more years happy trail riding to be had out of this old TTR Raid!!!
Thanks to all of you for your comments/advice/help etc...a great forum with great members.


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Good result, Neil.

I'm pleased your TTR's mended and running sweetly. Long may it continue so. wink

Was your given estimate of price reached? confuse

Never mind - enjoy the bike and even more so now that Spring and Summer are on the way (Supposedly) smile

Martyn



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Cubber wrote:

Good result, Neil.

I'm pleased your TTR's mended and running sweetly. Long may it continue so. wink

Was your given estimate of price reached? confuse

Never mind - enjoy the bike and even more so now that Spring and Summer are on the way (Supposedly) smile

Martyn


 Thanks Martyn...actually came in cheaper than the estimate, i bought all the bits and pieces from Brian and the labour bill was less than they thought! Result all round really...it's running so well right now...just need some warmth and sunshine!!



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Yep - good result Neil!

Rings, head & base gasket set and valve stem oil seals are usually all that's needed for an engine "refresh" - just a tad over £70 if you do it yourself - and not a great deal more if you take it to a bike shop by the sounds of it smile

I agree we need some better weather - 5C outside but it feels like below zero. It wasn't nice yesterday laying on the drive fixing an exhaust mounting on the car for MOT no

But I got my MOT this morning so it was worth it biggrin

Brian



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Neil

Glad you are sorted now. You can't be based too far away from me. If you want to do some lanes midway sometime, give me a shout.

Lee



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Base gasket gasket
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yeah want it sorting now poor thing, she is such a good bike to me and need it strong and ready for winter, got a 40 mile round commute to college down back lanes.

just giving her a full overhaul just hope my gears on starter motor and idler gears are alright, changing sprag clutch as a precaution aswell, got MOT at end of August need it ready for that but there good passed it last on the most illegal number plate ever imagined

is this suitably for the fork oil

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_222233_langId_-1_categoryId_165507



-- Edited by sammyttr on Thursday 11th of July 2013 10:04:34 PM

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Hi I am replacing the base gasket on my TTR I need to know all the tightening torques for head bolts, camshaft caps and tightening sequence, also replacing sprag clutch need to know fly wheel tightening torque and any other major bolts and also tightening torques forrebuilding front forks and which fork oil is best to use and quantity 

 

thanks Sam



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CLICKY THINGY to a previous request for torque settings and the replies.

Martyn



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Mint thank you just need tightening sequence if there is one

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A little at a time and diagonally - there's not that many holding the top to the bottom, so it's unlikely to warp as much as a straight eight would. biggrin

Martyn



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G'day All,

Had the RHS crankcase cover gasket replaced on my '94 TTR along with a valve clearance check[was OK at 28K KM]and dual purpose rubber fitted ready for vein g used as a daily commuter. Also had the Venhill brake line kit fitted too Brian, made a huge difference to the front in particular-I guess 20 year old rubber hoses are well past it!

Anyway, went out for a 'shakedown' ride today to scrub the new tyres in, and I have another oil leak!!!

This time it's the base gasket at the bottom of the barrel. Is this common? I'm looking at about $600 including labour top end gasket kit and a set of new valve guides and genuine rings[assuming it needs em]and was wondering if these base gaskets are a known issue? The engine is 20 years old after all. Gaskets do dry out.....

I've left the TTR at the mechanics until I decide what to do. I was reading the 325 kit thread, but with our crap Aussie Dollar I think the cost would be astronomical The big bore route would be great as far as extra torque goes as at 120kg I'm a big bloke and the TTR isn't light at all. If I could buy the 325 kit at the right price I would probably go that way, as the engine needs to be pulled down to fit a new barrel gasket anyway.

I really don't know what to do. I noticed a few Members have fitted the 325 kits.......have they proven reliable? Here in Oz we have an increase in rego & CTP insurance costs over 250cc so I could still rego the TTR as a 250........

I've even thought of buying a Chinese made new bike to commute on, about $3300 ride away with a two year warranty. It's only a 150cc liquid cooled engine though.

 

Decisions, decisions. Help! Advice needed.



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id go the wisco 2mm oversize it would give a bit of a tourque with out splitting the cases .

ive done big bore kits on other bikes in the past and find they   tend to get a bit hotter  in the hard going on 30deg plus days .

tge bottom gasket leaking isnt a common problem just an opertunity to freshen things up a bit 



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I agree with Les in that the bottom gasket leak is unusual. It can happen where an engine has taken in water and "hydraulicked" as this can stretch the head bolts enough to allow the base gasket to crack and leak. But this won't be your situation.

It can be very difficult to identify the source of a leak as leaking oil gets blown or creeps around the engine and can drip far away from the source of the leak. You may have seen my efforts with talcum powder to identify (successfully!) the source of a leak on my own TTR no

The most common source of a leak is the decompressor plug. Are you sure that one is oil tight?

The "280" piston kit is the quick and easy way to go.

It is also worth replacing the valve stem oil seals whilst the head is off if they are still the originals. 

Good to hear the Venhill brake hoses worked out well biggrin

Brian



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G'day Guys,

When I first bought the TTR it had a badly leaking decompressor plug, and the engine was covered in oil. I wrongly assumed that the oil was from the leaking plug, and an easy cheap fix. Turns out I was wrong........I think the seller knew a little more than he said he did!

When the RH crankcase gasket was replaced the mechanic said the internals were very clean, so it appears to have been maintained. The K&N filter fitted was also clean and freshly oiled so that was a good sign too. It was the sellers only transport for years, and his brothers' before that who bought it as a Japan market import in 2000.

I'll ask my mechanic to strip the top end down, and if it is all stock and in good shape I may just have the cylinder honed an a set of new rings fitted. If there is a rebore required I'll go the +2mm piston kit from Brian[is that the '280' kit mentioned above?]and just ride the wheels off it.

I've just spent AUD$600 on a fork service, two new dual sport tyres, valve clearance check and service, plus the AUD$220 on the front and rear Venhill brake line kit.

I'm quoted about AUD$400 in labour to tear down and rebuild the top end plus parts. At the current exchange rate it'll cost me AUD$335 for the 263cc Wossner kit plus head and base gaskets, and a set of new valve stem oil seals. That's plus whatever a local rebore for the bigger piston kit will cost.

I'm still undecided about which way to go....the TTR owes me about $2,000 already. What if the bottom end carks it? :-/

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If you can find a mate with a few tools the top end rebuild is pretty easy .labour is the biggest cost fortunately something I've never paid for 

If the bikes been looked after the bottom end should be ok for at least 70k kms 



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Had the upper head removed (sorry, not great on technical terms) to re-thread where the spark plug goes (last owner wasn't great at DIY) and new timing chain and guides. The lower section was dislodged during the work but not removed - decided it was a job too far to replace gasket so put it back together.

DOH! After a few rides (80k's each time on single trail - bike works very hard)  there is a small bit of seepage  (see photo - I do clean it but with the dirt I can see the leaks) - bike is using no oil and compression is great.

Lower Head Gasket.jpg

Would it be worth replacing the gasket?



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I would advise that it's NOT YET time to replace it, especially if the engine is otherwise running well. smile

If, on the other hand, the engine is knocking, rattling or not performing well then it would be soon time to dismantle, check it all out and overhaul.

The amount of oil seepage through the "cylinder base gasket" that you show is not half as bad as mine was leaking from the decompression plug before I renewed it!

I take it that the "cylinder head gasket" you replaced is still OK. confuse

No - I'd leave it alone - but keep your eye on it in the mean time. wink

Martyn



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Thanks. I've decided if the bore is OK I'll just replace the gaskets, rings and valve stem oil seals. If the bore is crook I'll spend the $$ on the 2mm oversize kit from Brian. Should know either way in a couple of days Took the GSA out for a 550km ride today, feels like a tank compared to the slim and svelte TTR

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That's the same problem I have but mine is much, much worse. In my case it leaks very little at low engine speeds, but sprays out at high engine speeds It's a barrel off job to fit a new gasket unfortunately

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Make sure that your oil breather pipe from the cam cover (blue TTRs) or crankcase (white TTRs) is not blocked and that you have been emptying the emulsifier pot between carb and airbox regularly.

This will help keep the crankcase pressure down but, ultimately, if the piston/rings are worn the pressure in the crankcase will be much higher from the "blowby".

Brian



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Thanks for the replies, I'll keep an eye on it.
What you said Brian makes sense, I'll check the pipe and pot. I really appreciate the advice of all on this forum



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Just an update for anyone interested.....

Picked up the TTR this morning. Now oil tight Bore was in very good shape, along with all the other internals. Only gaskets needed replacing, got genuine at a good price. Interestingly the fixings holding the barrel to the crankcase were not very tight according to the chap who did the work. Maybe the 'hydraulic lock' theory was correct?

Anyway, all good now and running like a top

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Good to hear your back on the road . Best part is you know that she's all good inside with many miles ahead biggrin



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ttboof wrote:

Good to hear your back on the road . Best part is you know that she's all good inside with many miles ahead biggrin


Absolutely. Buying a twenty year old trail bike is always a bit of a gamble!!biggrinbiggrin 



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Update

Cleaned out the emulsifier pot as Brian suggested and leak is way less.

IMG_20141116_105246_0.jpg

Thanks Briansmile



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Good to hear the leak has reduced.

The two "outside" head bolts can be very tight in the casing threads and give false torque readings. I have had this before and blew two head gaskets before I realised what was happening. The bolts seem to thread in OK before the build but seem to seize a bit when under pressure.

It is really important to check the two outside head bolts run easily in the threads and if not run thread cleaners over the bolts and in the casing threads.

Brian



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I just cleaned out my emulsifier pot and crankcase breather... Glad I did!! It was brimmed with the stuff!!

Was suffering a tiny weep at the front base gasket area, just looked like a damp area when dirty.. Hoping this will solve the issue... If not it'll be head off and replace it. Luckily I got two genuine gaskets with the bike when I bought it. Is it worth changing the rings and cam chain while I've got it apart? This girls got a bit of mileage on her (40k)

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RE: Base gasket fitting, wet or dry?
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Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I've searched the forum high and low regarding fitting a base gasket DRY or WET ???

The bottom face of my barrel casting isn't  100% scratch free, smooth or skimmed and has a few tiny marks. Will a dry paper gasket and the o-ring suffice or is it worth applying a thin layer of threebond 1164 semi drying compound?  Ive just conpleted a complete engine overhaul so I'm hoping I won't be opening it up again anytime soon.

 

Cometic suggest fitting their head gasket in the 325 kit dry so I'll follow their suggestion there. But not sure about their paper base gasket.

 

Cheers!



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