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The TTR250 FAQ web pages -> TTR250 -> Repairs and maintenance -> Starter motor repair, using FZR 600 Starter motor
Post Info TOPIC: Starter motor repair, using FZR 600 Starter motor
ttr steve


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Starter motor repair, using FZR 600 Starter motor
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I have been asked a lot about this lately, so I thought I would re post my old solution to a cheap starter motor repair.


Hi

I have been doing a lot of maintenance on my bike lately, and have spent quite a few pounds. Now my starter motor has packed up, shredded gears, done the sprag and large idler gear, then turned my attention to the starter. A new starter from Yamaha is over £300 +, pattern part from china £120, as I have spent so much and am on a budget, I done some research and found this....http://www.dirtybiking.co.uk/features/tech_stuff_2005_starter_rebuild.htm  (EDIT - the link is broken - sorry - will try and reinstate it. Brian)

 

I found a starter on ebay for £20 with free postage, when the part was delivered I put both on the bench and reflected on Adrian's article. I really found it hard to get myself motivated to do that much work, and started to look at them closely, what I noticed was that they were very similar. I spent the next hour trying to think of ideas, then had a eureka moment.

The only difference of the starters was that the Fazer one was 12mm longer and the mounting bracket and spigot for the electric were different and in the wrong place (would hit the cylinder head), What I came up with is this. I took the back part of the TTR starter off, and swapped it with the Fazer one, drilled out holes 12mm from the centres of the original ones, so that the starter could move back 12mm. Then I cut of the old holes, took a file to the raised bit's and replaced them later with washers, to make the correct position. I had to file a bit of the back of the starter to get the bolts to fit properly, this is obvious if you have a go at this. Then I bolted the modified TTR one onto the back of the Fazer starter and fitted it to the bike!

Once I had worked out what to do, the actual work took 30mins

I have nearly got the rest of the bike back together and will let you know what happens next, ie if it STARTS!!!!

Here are the photos of the work.

 

starter 003.jpg

starter 018.jpg

starter 020.jpg

starter 021.jpg

starter 024.jpgg

starter 026.jpg

If you are going to do this, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU TAKE THE STARTER GEAR COVER OFF AND INSPECT THAT THE STARTER PINION GEAR IS WORKING ON THE WHOLE SURFACE OF THE IDLER GEAR. If it isn't, you will have to adjust the fixing holes and move the starter motor inwards a bit!

Anyway if this starts the bike, it is a very cheap way of fixing a starter and does not take too long.smilesmilesmile.

Hope that you at least enjoy my report, if nothing else.

Cheers

Steve



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TTRfan


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The original starters will outlast the bike. It's only when a worn sprag is ignored that you get problems no

A great guide from Steve and it may just have motivated me to have a go at adapting a couple of Fazer starters I have gathering dust here!

Brian



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jasparach


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Starter motor repair, using FZR 600 Starter motor
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An even easier route to a second hand starter is to find a starter from a YP 250 Majesty scooter and swap the end/back plates from one to the other and you have a starter for a a TTR. I have succesfully done this and they are bought cheap 2nd hand. I posted it on the site here somewhere when i did it at the time. You just swap the back plates over and it is done. couldn't be easier.



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TTRfan


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At long last I got around to modifying the Fazer starter motors I bought so very long ago!

After taking various measurements, the most suitable place to drill the new mounting holes is just touching the raised rings that surround the original holes, and directly in line with those holes, as shown in the photo below. This allows the pinion to sit about a mm further in than the original TTR starter and is better in my opinion as the original pinion sits right on the edge of the starter gear. The photo below compares where the pinion runs on the idler gear on a Majesty and a TTR starter to demonstrate how near the end of the pinion the TTR idler runs.

Pinion comparison.jpg 

I used a 7mm drill bit to allow just a little amount of wiggle room.

After cutting off the old ends, rather than file off the remains of the raised rings, I left them on to give the correct spacing so that I didn't need to fit washers.

Fazer conversion 4.jpg

 

The original bolts are flanged and won't sit flat as they catch on the casing:

Fazer conversion 8a.jpg 

The answer is to file (I used a Dremel with a burr attachment) a small section of the casing away to allow them to sit flat.

Fazer conversion 10.jpg

Fazer conversion 8b.jpg

It is likely that you may have to do a small amount of filing to get the holes to line up such that the bolts fit right in.

I hope that helps rather than confuses but any questions just fire away please wink

Brian

 



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SussexTony


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Love it! Do u think there would be any benefits from having a longer body on starter ( run a larger speed ) or have I totally lost the plot now!!!!!

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TTRfan


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The Fazer motor body is a tad over 10mm longer than the original TTR one and is as long as you can fit on without having to make up new mountings on the crankcase. 

I have an original TTR starter on my 350 and it turns the engine over plenty strongly enough so think that we are OK biggrin

But use the FZR starter if you think you need a bit of extra oomph.  I am passing over the Fazer starter motors I have converted to Steve (when I am able to visit again) so they will appear in the shop once he has them in stock - part number TTR-0920 wink



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SussexTony


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Cheers Brian , I was just thinking out loud that’s all , but you do think u might get more  mph ??? From haveing bigger outer body on starter ????  



-- Edited by SussexTony on Saturday 28th of November 2020 11:36:39 AM

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TTRfan


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Ah - I thought you meant a longer body Tony.

All of this type of starter fitted to Yamahas seem to have the same diameter body. I think it would be a nightmare trying to get a different starter to fit.

I think you would need to work in a bike breakers with access to a load of different starter motors to experiment but, as I said, there doesn't seem to be a need as the standard starter works really well.

The only common starter issue on the TTR is where a worn sprag is ignored and it damages the starter motor pinion when the engine kicks back.

PS I have a vague recollection that an XMAX scooter starter is similar to the YP250 and might be an easy conversion option. Anyone know?

 



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SussexTony


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Sorry ya, that’s what I did mean longer body! Sorry again , any way spoke to vortex racing and he’s got hold of a yam starter so  got rid of the crap that I had Bought, ( new from eBay witch I paid £100 pound ) 



-- Edited by SussexTony on Saturday 28th of November 2020 05:08:40 PM

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JOHNYBOY


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sussex tony may i ask a question why not use our ttr steve to buy parts at totally ttr/s this gentleman and our ttr god brian gives us all the information & exploded diagrams WE ALL NEED we would all be lost without these people so why buy parts from other people / suppliers they could not give a **** once you have bought them ask them for advise / questions they dont want to know just a thought support them they are good to us all taking their valuable time & effort to HELP US ALL INC ME JUST A THOUGHT JOHN JOHNBOY

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jasparach


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Get a starter 2nd hand from YP 250 majesty and take the back off it and swap it for the TTR and off you go. A simple swap and a cheap alternative. The starters are Mitsuba SM 13 and are used across a wide range of manufacturer form what i can gather

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325 ttr


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Starter problems all come over size kits is there any way of decompression mod


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TTRfan


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325 ttr wrote:

Starter problems all come over size kits is there any way of decompression mod

I never had a problem with the starter motor on my 325 and so far so good on my 350. Not heard of any starter issues from other owners with 350 kits.  Have you had starter issues?

Yamaha used to offer a decompressor kit as an optional extra and I have seen a few. Is that what you are looking for?

Brian

PS Steve fitted one of my rebuilt FZR starter to his 350 this morning and it works fine wink



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mossproof


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Likewise my 325 and 350. Starter problems come from old bikes! I have a theory that starter sprag problems come from poor oil quality or contamination...

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JOHNYBOY


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i tend to agree with you simon change oil regular oil is cheap cheaper than a expensive repair due to not changing oil but i still cannot convince people all i get is ive done 20000 miles or more not had a spanner on it yet - not a sensible comment - john



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