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Post Info TOPIC: Sump plug issues mega thread - plug stuck in, threads stripped, leaking etc.


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Sump plug issues thread - plug stuck in, threads stripped, leaking etc.
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I have decided to change the oil on my TTR Open Enduro , is there a knack to getting the plug out ?? Its way tight !!!  ie is it a normal thread ?? 



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Normal thread on the plug - just make sure you use your very best fitting spanner coz you won't want to round that sucker off no

I don't recommend this but sometimes you can get a really tight one to start undoing using a cold chisel on the outer edge of the plug and giving it a deft tap with a hammer..........



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TTRfan wrote:

Normal thread on the plug - just make sure you use your very best fitting spanner coz you won't want to round that sucker off no

I don't recommend this but sometimes you can get a really tight one to start undoing using a cold chisel on the outer edge of the plug and giving it a deft tap with a hammer..........


 Brian, thanks . Unfortunatly some one has already had a go at it and its not in the best condition. 

 



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It sounds like cold chisel and Mole grips will be the way to go then cry



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Lin


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If you are using a 12 point socket it will not work. Try a six point socket (single hexagon) and preferably a single hex flank drive socket.

images.jpeg



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I bought a set of sockets for removing rounded off nut/bolt heads from Machine Mart a few years back to get some caliper bolts out of one of my old cars, they work a treat and were only about £20. I'm not exactly sure what their name is, but they have reverse splines inside that grip the knackered bolt head.



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In the same situation couple of months ago when going to my first oil change on a 2000 model I just bought.

The bolt head was knackered.

I laid the bike on its side and used molegrips, use them on the outside of the flang not the bolt head. You get better purchase that way.

Make sure to get the copper washer when you buy a new plug.



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Dave wrote:

I bought a set of sockets for removing rounded off nut/bolt heads from Machine Mart a few years back to get some caliper bolts out of one of my old cars, they work a treat and were only about £20. I'm not exactly sure what their name is, but they have reverse splines inside that grip the knackered bolt head.


 they are called IRWIN SOCKETS well worth the money



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RE: Oil drain plug , help !!
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The first time I did this I just tack welded another nut on the bottom of the sump plug and put the spanner on that and it was off. Now I have a spare but always use 6 point socket and it has not happened again.

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blackmaverick wrote:

I laid the bike on its side and used molegrips, use them on the outside of the flang not the bolt head. You get better purchase that way.


Rich came around this afternoon and we had a go at it.

It was well stuck in confuse

Just couldn't get the molegrips to turn it so resorted to hammer and cold chisel.  Just as I thought I might damage the casing if I missed, it moved biggrin

We drained the oil and Rich has a shiny new magnetic Gold Plug to put back in wink



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Aidan wrote:

Do u recommend the gold plugs??


I checked around and there were cheaper magnetic sump plugs available but these are the best quality I could find so that's what I fit in my own TTRs and what I stock for Totally TTRs wink

Other brands are avaialble - as they say on the BBC biggrinbiggrinbiggrin  

Brian



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Aidan wrote:

I was more asking about the magnetic plug as a whole compare to the original one. Is there really that much floating round the engine that will be collected?


 Sorry Aidan - I misunderstood no

In normal circumstances the magnetic plug just collects very fine particles of metal which I guess are from the clutch steel plates which isn't a problem.

If it collects something a bit bigger then (a) it has saved it getting any further into the engine and (b) alerts the owner that something needs attention.

Certainly not necessary but a bit of a safety net.

Brian



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It's surprising how much swarf there is in circulation.

Every missed gear change will make some swarf, no matter how small. bleh

Every clutch use similarly produces minute particles as the plates wear away in the basket. bleh

It amounts up and is evident whenever the magnetic sump plug is removed. hmm

Getting the damned stuff off the plug is another matter because of the strong magnetic effect which recovers the particles. confuse

Mine, ashamedly, gets put back with minute residue still attached. evileye

Martyn



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TTRfan wrote:

Aidan wrote:

I was more asking about the magnetic plug as a whole compare to the original one. Is there really that much floating round the engine that will be collected?


 Sorry Aidan - I misunderstood no

In normal circumstances the magnetic plug just collects very fine particles of metal which I guess are from the clutch steel plates which isn't a problem.

If it collects something a bit bigger then (a) it has saved it getting any further into the engine and (b) alerts the owner that something needs attention.

Certainly not necessary but a bit of a safety net.

Brian


No worries Brian well good thing to because I ordered one of eBay possibly off u?? The other day. My mate is obsessed with them, his ktm Aparintly has 4 odd magnetic points. I also found some metallic residue on the filter as I just rebuilt the engine with new piston and rebore. so thought it would be a good idea. Good to know they actualy work though.

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Sump plug issues thread - plug stuck in, threads stripped, leaking etc.
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Just wondering if anyone knows (without me taking my plug out and measuring it) what diameter and pitch the sump plug is on the TTRs?

I've found some quick drain valves in various threads at http://www.quickvalve.co.uk/size_charts_cars.htm and I was going to replace the sump plug with one next time I drop the oil - saves me accidentaly stripping the casing out!



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The thread is M12x1.5
Not sure of the length, probably 15 or 20mm.

Martyn



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Aaaarrrrgggghhhh.... I'm going to dish out some extreme violence in not very long. The reason is that my alloy sump plug bolt head has stripped completely. It's made out of butter I think, plus a gorilla (me) tightened it when it was put in. Note to self, don't over tighten the sump plug. Any ideas to get it out? I've tried snap on sockets, molegrips, hitting it, notching the collar and hitting that with a chisel, heating it gently, and nothing seems to budge it.



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Bad luck Pete cry

The only way I know to get one out where Molegrips etc can't be used is to lay the bike on its side and doing more of what you have tried already - notching the collar and trying to undo what's left of the plug using a hammer and cold chisel.

The only alternative is to drill it out I guess but that has got to be the last resort.

Good luck.

Brian



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Cheers Brian, I haven't had it laid on its side yet but will be doing to change the oil and filter. Fingers crossed it makes it a bit easier! I suppose I'll drain the petrol tank first to stop it overflowing.



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pedrosan wrote:

Cheers Brian, I haven't had it laid on its side yet but will be doing to change the oil and filter. Fingers crossed it makes it a bit easier! I suppose I'll drain the petrol tank first to stop it overflowing.


 Unless your tank is brimming and/or your petrol cap leaks (or you smoke whilst working on your TTR) then no need to drain the tank. You don't have to have your TTR completely horizontal - just lay it over on some old tyres or whatever sufficient to get good access to the sump plug.

In any case it is always easier, I find, to take a tank off than drain it - also I do it that way because I am clumsy and always manage to spill petrol disbelief



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RE: sump plug stuck in
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eeasier than draining, take if off!

I found stud extractors very useful in the past. Was daunting, but if you take your time you should be fine.

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Pedrosan,

I used a small pipe wrench to get a sump plug out that had a stripped head. Worked quite well.

Larry

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Cheers chaps. I'll have a bash next week and let you know how it goes. I'll take the tank off just so its not so heavy to get upright again. And I'll borrow a small pipe wrench off someone.

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'94 Yamaha TTR 250 Raid (with Open Enduro headlight, grrr...)

'54 plate Suzuki GSF 650S (Bandit)

Previously Yamaha YBR125, Yamaha TY125, Yamaha TY250



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Hi Pete. Do you have a welder? I tacked on a nut to the bottom of the sump plug and then used a spanner on it. The next day I brought a TQ wrench and new sump plug.



-- Edited by Matt G on Friday 20th of April 2012 01:43:36 PM

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My sump plug was rounded around the flats by previous owner.

Just lay bike on its side resting on jack in box type stand, I wouldnt bother taking tank off.

Get the smallest pair of stillsons you can find 5 to 6 inch long

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ridgid-Model-6-31000-Straight-Pipe-Wrench-6-Inch-/270814804742?pt=UK_DIY_Materials_Plumbing_MJ&hash=item3f0dd1fb06

Buy a new gold plug off Brian before doing this so you have a nice new one to fit

 



-- Edited by colin13846 on Friday 20th of April 2012 06:41:27 PM

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Hi Matt, unfortunately its alloy, so I can't weld it. Shame, next time I'll do it up less tightly!

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'94 Yamaha TTR 250 Raid (with Open Enduro headlight, grrr...)

'54 plate Suzuki GSF 650S (Bandit)

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Cheers Colin I'll try that. The pipe wrench idea appeals to me because it should actually help that the plug is a bit soft (as it can grip it better), so fingers crossed on that. I'll order a new one first as well, top tip! I'd become fixated on getting this one off and hadn't thought what I'd do next...

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'94 Yamaha TTR 250 Raid (with Open Enduro headlight, grrr...)

'54 plate Suzuki GSF 650S (Bandit)

Previously Yamaha YBR125, Yamaha TY125, Yamaha TY250



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I have a set o these, work well

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IRWIN-5PC-BOLT-GRIP-NUT-BOLTS-REMOVER-BASE-SOCKET-SET-/180776069833?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2a1717eac9



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Logi wrote:

I have a set o these, work well

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IRWIN-5PC-BOLT-GRIP-NUT-BOLTS-REMOVER-BASE-SOCKET-SET-/180776069833?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item2a1717eac9


 Not seen those before Logi and it's good to get a personal recommendation wink

I bought an Alligator socket but haven't yet managed to undo a stubborn bolt/nut with it cry

Brian



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Fun & Games with Sump Plugs
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Went to change the oil the other day and the sump plug finally stripped altogether, the previous owner started it I Finished it, the trouble was the bash plate hole wasn't lined up properly and was to small, (B&B Bashplate) anyway you can see what I had to do, I tried a nut first but couldn't get a solid weld, so went to a small strip of 3mm thick plate with a 11mm hole drilled through it, the size of the stripped and rounded off sump plug nut, I tacked it on first and then gave it a good welding once it was off so I could ride in the meantime.

 For those Aussie riders, it's cheaper to buy stuff from Brian and have it sent over than it is to buy here, it you can even get the bits you want, I got First a new magnetic Sump plug and a stack of other things, Brake pads, cables, gaiters, bar risers etc... for less than $250au

Looking forward to getting the goodies

Thanks

Trish and Brian, good service, did the whole lot over the Weekend for me

 

Cheers

Steve

 

 2.jpg

 

1.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



-- Edited by BM Steve on Monday 2nd of July 2012 05:48:06 AM

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RE: sump plug stuck in
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Now then, great news: finally got it off! After taking the tank off it was a lot easier to get to the sump, I did try hammering, notching and heating again which didn't work. After failing with a pipe wrench I was at my wits end. Eventually I drilled the bolt head from one side through to the other and put a drift through it, then got a half inch 13mm socket and slotted it to match where the drift stuck out of the bolt head, and put a length of pipe on my ratchet to give me leverage and it came out! No corrosion, correct thread, no idea why it was so tight. Only downside is that I now can't find my replacement sump plug! Doh! Still, I'm a very happy boy :)

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'94 Yamaha TTR 250 Raid (with Open Enduro headlight, grrr...)

'54 plate Suzuki GSF 650S (Bandit)

Previously Yamaha YBR125, Yamaha TY125, Yamaha TY250



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pedrosan wrote:

Now then, great news: finally got it off! After taking the tank off it was a lot easier to get to the sump, I did try hammering, notching and heating again which didn't work. After failing with a pipe wrench I was at my wits end. Eventually I drilled the bolt head from one side through to the other and put a drift through it, then got a half inch 13mm socket and slotted it to match where the drift stuck out of the bolt head, and put a length of pipe on my ratchet to give me leverage and it came out! No corrosion, correct thread, no idea why it was so tight. Only downside is that I now can't find my replacement sump plug! Doh! Still, I'm a very happy boy :)


 Well done Pete biggrinbiggrin



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I find using a torque wrench set to the appropriate setting takes all the guess work out of tightening important fasteners. The biggest chore is looking up the torque figure in the manual so I have even started to write in fine black marker pen commomly used figures on the the bike adjacent to the relavent bolt etc.

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That's a good plan Colin, next on my list of tools to buy is a torque wrench! I have put it off because of the cost but been clearly shown the error of my ways...

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Keighley, West Yorkshire

'94 Yamaha TTR 250 Raid (with Open Enduro headlight, grrr...)

'54 plate Suzuki GSF 650S (Bandit)

Previously Yamaha YBR125, Yamaha TY125, Yamaha TY250



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Pete

Buy a good quallity one and it will last a lifetime, I have had mine 30 years  and it is still accurate, we have a torque wrench tester at work.

The main thing to keep it accurate is to always reset it back to zero after using it, this relax's the internal spring. 



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Thanks for the advice, which range of torque values would be the best wrench to get, thanks in advance.

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'94 Yamaha TTR 250 Raid (with Open Enduro headlight, grrr...)

'54 plate Suzuki GSF 650S (Bandit)

Previously Yamaha YBR125, Yamaha TY125, Yamaha TY250



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Not too hot on makes but get a three-eighths drive one as it seems to have a more "sensitive" range of settings suited to dirtbikes compared to half-inch drive ones. Needs to do 10Nm reliably at least!

I confess to having both so that I can use the bigger one for the sprocket nut etc but both are on semi-permanent loan from my bro' who hasn't currently got a garage space. 



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Bit tricky, which range, as TTR I have two wrenches 0 to 54 Nm and 30 to 150 Nm. They are both made by Norbar and are both 1/2" drive. Most of the time I guess I use the smaller one. I would study the workshop manual torque table which lists many values and see what work you are likly to do on your bike, bear in mind you may also use it on the car.

Make a trip to a good motor factors and see what they have, I would personally not buy one that says "Made in China" 



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Thanks chaps, I'll probably start off with a smaller one and beg or borrow a bigger one when needed. Halfords professional stuff always seems ok to me. Thanks again, Pete

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'94 Yamaha TTR 250 Raid (with Open Enduro headlight, grrr...)

'54 plate Suzuki GSF 650S (Bandit)

Previously Yamaha YBR125, Yamaha TY125, Yamaha TY250



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Good to hear that you got it out with no damage! I am impressed with the method of removal you came up with as well. It's amazing the ideas you can come up with in these situations.

I remember when I was serving my apprenticeship we had a 3/4" UNF bolt, (the older chaps will remember these things before 'M' this and 'M' that!) which are a 1 1/8" head across the flats, that was stuck fast and with poor access made getting a long bar to it impossible. My journeyman went in to great detail how a bolt held things together by the tension created between the face of the bolt head and the lands of the threads and if there was no bolt head the threaded part would very likely just unscrew. I made the mistake of saying "so how do we get the head of the bolt off, Jim?" To which he replied "We? You will use these" and he handed me a 2LB ballpane hammer and a long cold chisel.

I seem to remember we sharpened the chisel quite a few times, but after some time the remains if the bolt did just unscrew with no problems.

So, lesson learned, always have an apprentice with you!

 

Peter 



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stripped sump plug
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very stupidly I have turned the sump plug the wrong way! then I undid it, let the oil out & did it up again, now it just revolves without tightening.

What do I do next?

Sound advice wanted but abuse and lots of !!! accepted

Mark



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I've heard of this having been done and read quite a few replies. confuse

One that seems to be used a lot is to Helicoil the sump thread so you can re-use the original drain bolt.

It shouldn't cause much disruption as it can be easily done with the sump in-situ. wink

I have mused on this in case it should happen to mine disbelief and I think that I would source the next size thread up and tap the sump to that size and fit a larger, FRESH plug. aww

Martyn



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Oh dear Mark, never mind these things happencry

I would recommend THESE I have used them extensively in my work over the years and have never had a problem with them.

I have used them on the bike on an oil filter cover bolt that had stripped its thread and a front axle clamping stud that had also stripped its thread.

All the kits come with full instructions and the larger kits come with the correct size drill.

You would need to measure the thickness of the engine case where the plug screws in as you will need to select a thread insert to suit. You can't put an insert in that's too long and protrudes through the case.

I used to live not far from you and there are (or were) a lot of small engineering firms in the area that coul do it for you if you don't feel happy doing it yourself 



-- Edited by Haggis Hunter on Monday 17th of September 2012 09:09:42 PM

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Helicoil is certainly the way forward. A new sump plug would be advisable which will require its thread size matching the internal thread of the helicoil insert.

It does require a degree of engineering skill to get the sizes correct, drilling/ tapping and understanding the fundimentals of helicoiling etc.

It maybe better to pay an engineering/machining firm to do the work as the cost of the helicoil is next to nothing, it will be labour that may be an hour or so. The cost of doing it yourself and making a mess could be a lot more.

If you do it yourself buy a few helicoil inserts and have a practice on a scrap piece of alluminium.

I would lay the bike on its side when carrying out the repair. I would also Loctite the insert in place and ensure its flush with its parent surfaces.

Hope this helps

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I use Recoil kits and very good they are too!

I have also drilled and "recoiled" a TTR sump plug thread. A word of warning when drilling before re-tapping, keep the drill at 90 degrees disbelief

Brian



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Thanks gentlemen for the sound advice.

While I'm thinking about sump plugs I think I'll fit a magnetic one (Brian) so it's Helicoil for me.

Haggis hunter, is the link to the correct kit for me? I breezed through the Recoil site & there is a lot of choice. (I haven't checked if the plug has the info on it)

Then I'll ask around for who could do the work-definitely not me.

When I give the bike over I'll remember to insist on them Loctiting & leaving the insert flush to the surface

I'm loath to pay for the local motorcycle shop to recover the bike to do the work in their workshop, if I can't find a result within wheeling distance of my house does anyone know of a mobile mechanic for the Herts/ N London area?

Mark



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I got it wrong. I have a Recoil kit for the M6 calamities but bought a V-coil kit for the sump plug which is M12 x 1.5 - see http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V-Coil-Thread-Repair-Kit-M12x1-5-Compatible-With-Helicoil-/330791729198?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4d04b9382e#ht_1227wt_1067

Not cheap but it allowed me to do the repair on my mate's TTR in his drive. It must have paid for itself in that one repair and I still have the drill, tap, etc and 9 inserts left. Rather than you buy a kit, I am sure we could come to some sort of arrangement for a loan with the new sump plug. Drop us an email at sales@totallyttrs.com and we can sort something out wink

It really isn't too difficult to do if you ar at all mechanically minded. As I hinted at, the hardest part was making sure the hole was drilled vertical.

Cheers

Brian



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Hi All, I got a mag sump plug from Brian a while back, great replacement for the original, also got some copper gadgets to go with its but

they are a bit hard I think and won't compress at all and so it has a very slow leak, the case is OK, no damage etc..

can you heat the seals and soften them ? or are there any fibre gaskets I can use ? or maybe some plumbers thread tape ?

Suggestions anyone

Cheers

Steve



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2004 TTR250 - Highway Dirtbike Hand Guards, 38mm Bar Risers, D606 Front & Rear, Opened up Airbox with Twin Air Filter, Re-jetted Carby, B+B Bash Plate & Frame Guards, DIY 3mm Alloy Tail Tidy, 14/47 Gearing.

 



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Are you still up Jarrah, it's after midnight  no or are you still doing the rebuild

Thanks for the tip

BTW, haven't forgotten the stickers, this is the first spare day I've had since before christmas

Went to see the New Bond movie today

I'd give it 3 out of 5 stars

Cheers



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2004 TTR250 - Highway Dirtbike Hand Guards, 38mm Bar Risers, D606 Front & Rear, Opened up Airbox with Twin Air Filter, Re-jetted Carby, B+B Bash Plate & Frame Guards, DIY 3mm Alloy Tail Tidy, 14/47 Gearing.

 



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Hi Steve

Sorry to hear of the problem. It's a first for the Gold plugs - not heard of it happening before.

The crush washer that comes with the Gold Plug is an aluminium one that can be re-used without annealing. The manufacturers recommend a new washer at each oil change but I have never bothered and haven't had any leaks.

Crush washer is a misnomer as they will only crush if over tightened! They provide sealing but their main task is to relieve and even the tension between the plug and the sump casing to stop it cracking.

All that guff isn't helping you though! You could change the washer for a softer copper one but make sure its a proper wide one and either new or freshly annealed. However, I have a feeling that there may be a problem with your sump to cause the weep. Could it be possibly cracked around the plug area?

Brian 



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