A forum for owners of Yamaha TTR250 trail and enduro bikes!

Cubber · Super Guru

Screeching noise from gearbox or clutch area?

TTRfan · Super Guru

ttr steve wrote:
Nice job Bri
Should I come over and re-spray the engine before it goes back in? Might be able to manage a few hours off

I think you are going to be kept busy on the farm Steve!

What paint were you thinking of - matt or shiny BBQ black perhaps?

ttr steve · Super Guru

Matt

Is there such a thing as BBQ black confuse confuse confuse

Cubber · Super Guru

Amazon, amongst others, has it HERE, Steve. wink

Martyn

locky · Guru

I can highly recommend this paint. www.my-tool-shed.co.uk/p1085550/PlastiKote_26020_BBQ_Twist_and_Spray_Black_400_ml/product_info.html
It's great to use and gives a nice finish that durable.

TTRfan · Super Guru

Another option here

What do you want to do Steve?????

ttr steve · Super Guru

As long as it is black I do not mind, aldi stuff is worth a try. smile smile smile

Cubber · Super Guru

Quite a few gentlemen say just the same, Steve, but don't mention Aldi. biggrin biggrin

It's going to be like a brand new TTR when you get it back - a bit of careful running in may be required. aww

Martyn

ttr steve · Super Guru

Martyn

That is just plain wrong why can't we mention aldi biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Running in furious furious furious

hanzo · Senior Member

On the plus side you may be able to keep your pasties warm on the trail biggrin biggrin can other paint finishes claim this😊

TTRfan · Super Guru

After a long break the clutch side gubbins has now been fitted!

Clutch side done.jpg

One more empty box and only two to go!

Box 1.jpg

Box 2.jpg

Oh yes, took a trip to Aldi and bought a can of stove paint biggrin

Progress..........

ttr steve · Super Guru

Will it help keep the pasties warm biggrin biggrin biggrin

TTRfan · Super Guru

Generator side done - and another empty box!

Do I admit that I forgot to adjust the clutch actuating lever so had to take the clutch case off again to do it? One step forward, two steps back disbelief

Another empty box.jpg

locky · Guru

good progress, im looking forewards to see what that paint is like for the engine.

TTRfan · Super Guru

As a clairvoyant might say "I foresee an evening in the garage trying in vain to get rid of the remains of the old cylinder base gasket" cry

locky · Guru

I had to think what you were on about then Steve but realise now.
1 more :)

TTRfan · Super Guru

Brian 1 - base gasket 0

but it was a struggle

Stanley knife blade did the trick. Need to find a holder to make it safer and save on the blisters cry

Cubber · Super Guru

I inherited one of these scrapers, Brian

CLICKY LINKY

and I've found it good for gasket removals and general 'splat' cleaning. wink

Martyn

TTRfan · Super Guru

Thanks Martyn but I have heaps of new "ordinary" Stanley blades that have the angled sides and I am sure that there is a holder that takes these. I might even have one here if I turf out my old toolboxes of long forgotten tools disbelief

Can't see a holder for these on eBay.

Brian

TTRfan · Super Guru

The Aldi BBQ paint covered quite well. It will be interesting to see how it holds up in use.

So, the engine is ready to install. But have I cured the mystery screech? Only time will tell cry

mossproof · Super Guru

Fingers crossed for you Brian (and Steve!)
Like the bright ally "detailing". Maybe polish the timing plugs, starter cover and filter cover too? (That's if you're ever at a loss for something to do

)
Good luck,
Simon.

Moo · Senior Member

I've seen those one side sealed bearings before when stripping down a few Suzuki DR600 engine cases, they all had them!

pug · Guru

Brian with you an Steve of on that you should have it swapped over in a couple of hours when is the big day...............

Pug

TTRfan · Super Guru

As you say it should be a quick job Pug - especially with two of us biggrin

Booked in for 26th wink

petenz · Super Guru

TTRfan wrote:
I popped out to Steve's place today but about 20 minutes of hard riding didn't produce the screech. Steve was riding in a field of wet grass and the spray was going up around the engine so it could be it just wasn't getting hot enough to produce the noise.
I have brought the TTR back to TTR Towers for further investigation.
Steve is clear that the noise level doesn't change when the clutch is pulled in and is engine independent.
This rules out the sprag, timing gear and oil pump. All areas that I thought might have been culprits.
It seems to leave the 4 transmission bearings as shown below - although they are getting plenty of oil :

or the clutch itself but it doesn't have any bearings of its own:
or something loose in the gearbox/sump that only moves to produce the screech when the oil is really hot
A mystery that still needs solving

OK... with out seeing the bike or hearing the noise

Bearing 24 in the pic would be my pic....

the bearing with the highest load and the shaft

changes speed as yer go up though the gears..

but that dosn't account for the noise happing when

at a stand still...

it's a lottery till yer pull it apart to have a look...

..

which could account for the noise changeing pitch...

ttr steve · Super Guru

Looks sweet Bri

See you on the 26th smile smile

TTRfan · Super Guru

Steve arrived this morning with the TTR but, more importantly, carrying Dartmoor steak pasties biggrin biggrin

The loan engine was out in less than half an hour:

Loan engine out.jpg

In just under an hour and a half total Steve's rebuilt engine was installed and ready to test drive:

Steves engine in.jpg

After a good thrash up and down the dual carriageway Steve looked fairly pleased wink

Successful test ride.jpg

So has the screech been fixed? Steve reckoned that a noise he heard in the engine prior to the screeching had gone so fingers crossed. The real test will be when he gets the TTR really hot in the lanes.......

And, yes, the steak pasties were bloody lovely - thanks Steve!

Brian

Cubber · Super Guru

Here's hoping that it's now cured and will provide many enjoyable miles from now on. wink

What is the barter rate with Dartmoor steak pies to the £?

I bet Steve's grinning from here to breakfast now. biggrin biggrin

I wonder if we will ever get to know what really was the cause of the noise. confuse

Martyn

peteBLUEttr · Super Guru

Well done Brian!

Well it was one of those bearings I guess, cos the noise changed pitch when selecting a different gear, pretty strange though cos worn bearings usually allow for a rattle, knock, whine or rumble.

So the PO rebuilt it without changing them, or maybe he just whipped the engine out and painted it without rebuilding it?...

-- Edited by peteBLUEttr on Monday 26th of October 2015 06:23:16 PM

TTRfan · Super Guru

I am not uber confident that the screech has been fixed as the old layshaft bearings (8 and 9 in the fiche diagrams) that I replaced were not obviously worn or damaged.

I don't think anyone had been inside the engine before. It had an original Yamaha cylinder head gasket and no obvious signs of previous dismantlement (is that a word?).

Everything inside the gearbox was pristine and the oil was like new with no particles and no debris in the sump.

Only time will tell. I am waiting for Steve to take it out on a trail ride and get the gearbox properly hot to see if the screech re-appears. I sincerely hope it doesn't as I have no idea what else might be causing it confuse

Brian

ttr steve · Super Guru

Thanks for today bri the staff at ttr towers are the best smile

finger and everything else crossed for when i can take the bike for a proper test, will report back soon.

steve.

JOHNYBOY · Super Guru

HI BRIAN WHAT IS THE PIECE OF ALLUMINIUM AROUND THR GEARBOX SPROCKET THAT SAYS TTR MANY THANKS JOHNBOY

peteBLUEttr · Super Guru

Its a case saver, if the chain snaps it won't punch a big hole through your engine casing if you have one

TTRfan · Super Guru

Pete is spot on - these are they. A very useful bit of bling!

They only fit the non-digital speedo models though......

Brian

ttr steve · Super Guru

Hi everyone.

Have not been able to get out on the bike, to check all of Bris work has been successful.

Will be out this sunday, for a 70mile run around dartmoor.

Will report back soon.

Fingers crossed wink

JOHNYBOY · Super Guru

thanks brian i guess no good for mine mines digital

peteBLUEttr · Super Guru

Can people with digi Speedo's have a case saver made up even?

ttr steve · Super Guru

Oh NO the noise is still there furious furious furious

And after all of brians hard work.

Just to re cap...... the noise is a screech similar to a fan belt sliping noise, happens when the bike has warmed up and intermitten. The noise changes pitch as I go through the gears, forgot to pull the clutch in and out and listen (didn't forget to use the clutch to change gears wink ), but dont think it made a difference confuse confuse confuse just the pitch changed as i went through the gears. Noise stops as soon as stationary and may not start for a little while after that.

Seemed to be noisier on the right hand side of the bike confuse Clutch problem confuse

Thoughts please.

pug · Guru

Been on a hard to find problem like this myself before Steve use to Drag Race a Gpz 1260 dam thing use to jump out of 2nd or 3rd or 4th or 5th gear under full load. It only use to do it maybe 2 out of ten runs but the motor use to hit the rev limiter 1100 rpm and you looked like a right prick on the strip. had that motor in bits a dozen times new bits in and out even swapped out the entire gear box innards and it still did it. turned out in the end to be the air shifter button had a short in it an just kicking the solenoid valve a little an firing the shift. only took 2 years and **** loads of cash spent on parts to find it was a £10 switch. what Im saying is don't give up and let it beat you strip it down a 2nd time or or better still build a 2nd motor for it an whack in a big bore kit as well.

Pug

ttboof · Super Guru

I had a noise that sounded prety terminal. Took abit of finding but id repaired the shock flap and made it afew mm wider it rubbed on the chain and sounded like the gear box was on the way out at times.

Might pay to check the brake caliper chain guide ext as its most likley not engine related

devon_rich · Senior Member

ttboof wrote:
I had a noise that sounded prety terminal. Took abit of finding but id repaired the shock flap and made it afew mm wider it rubbed on the chain and sounded like the gear box was on the way out at times.
Might pay to check the brake caliper chain guide ext as its most likley not engine related

Unlikely as it didn't happen with Brians spare engine and box in the bike on several ride outs

ttboof · Super Guru

The plot thickens. Will keep thinking

you might be on the right track pulling the clutch in to see if its gearbox or engine

mine has done a similar thing but only a couple of times when ridden hard on 40deg plus days still did it at idle turned it off for a few minutes and it was ok.

In my case its in the engine not the gear box but only happened a couple of times now seems to have stopped

TTRfan · Super Guru

Although it looked perfect, my next attempt at a solution is to swap out the whole clutch basket!

Just got to find a day when Mrs TTR can spare her car. My dear old Jag (V6 3.0 petrol) has developed a bad misfire and it's looking like I may have to take the inlet manifold off to get at the LH bank of 3 coil packs and spark plugs. The manifold has a zillion electrical connections and little pipes and it looks a scary job. It makes a gearbox strip on a TTR look simple cry

Brian

peteBLUEttr · Super Guru

Damn. Turning into a bit of a bast**d now then..

admbnm · Veteran Member

i have had a screeching sound from a 2nd hand clutch fitted to an xt500,the sound was traced to the crankshaft pinion and clutch from different motors,when the matching pinion was fitted no more noise,since then i always fitted the clutch and pinion as a matched pair,just a thought,martin

ttr steve · Super Guru

Good thought, how could I check that?

admbnm · Veteran Member

if it is ok stationary it kinda rules out the pinion,

TTRfan · Super Guru

I rocked up at Steve's today only to find I was a week early and, following receipt of my text saying I was on my way, Steve had re-organised his work for the day to accommodate me - sorry mate disbelief

We had a lovely big space to work on in Steve's garage - luxury!

Started to strip out the clutch and the first thing we found was a shard of hard steel stuck in one of the friction plates.

Friction plate and metal shard.jpg

There was also a bit of debris from the recent rebuild caught in the gauze filter - mostly small soft pieces of sealant from my over-exuberant use of it when bolting the cases together.

However there was nothing in the oil filter - it was perfectly clean which was a good sign!

Oil filter clean.jpg

When we got the basket off there was signs of unwanted activity on the bronze bush bearing.

Clutch basket bearing - Steves.jpg

Not sure what had caused that except maybe a bit of the metal shard that had broken off?

Anyways up, we fitted the parts I had brought where the bearing in the basket was pretty much perfect.

Clutch basket bearing - mine.jpg

Whilst trying to figure out what the shard was from, I recollected that the PO had dropped in with the TTR a few years back to fit a new starter motor as the pinion on his old one had shredded. Although great effort was made to clean out the swarf, the shard seems very likely to be a bit of case hardened steel from the damaged pinion that somehow escaped the clean up and eventually found its way into the clutch.

To be sure we checked and wiped all surfaces and stripped off the the generator cover to do the same. Everything on the starter side was pristine and nothing stuck to the flywheel where you might normally find metal "shreddings" so all good to be put back together!

For whatever reason, neither Steve or I had fitted a magnetic sump plug in the past and this might well have caught the shard. That will be put to rights and a Gold Plug is on its way to Steve. Hindsight is a great thing eh? Once fitted Steve can fill up with fresh oil and test if we have solved the problem.....

Job done, Steve very kindly popped down to his local butcher and brought back some pasties for lunch. And very nice they were too - made from proper skirt and not minced beef biggrin biggrin

Pasty time.jpg

To be continued........................

nelly · Senior Member

hope that's sorted it bud, ive been following this mainly because if anything can go wrong with ttr , it will at some time happen to me...............
good luck
nel

Cubber · Super Guru

Looks like you ended up with the smaller serving of pie, Brian. doh biggrin

I really hope that Steve's screechings of gearbox/clutch are silenced now, it's been a long drawn out affair for the two of you. cry

Martyn