A forum for owners of Yamaha TTR250 trail and enduro bikes!

Michael TTR250 · Veteran Member

Some advice needed on Mousse/Tire balls/Ultra Heavy Duty tube

petenz · Super Guru

I have 4mm thick pirelli tubes in my XT660R.. never had a flat so far...
But what mungles they are to get the valve stem though the hole...

Michael TTR250 · Veteran Member

OK, good to know. I need a new tire anyway so the valve stem will be the tire fitters job.

TTRfan · Super Guru

Michael TTR250 wrote:
Hey guys,
I only ride on dirt (no need to take road riding into the decision making process) and run Heavy duty tubes 18-20 psi on trails with lots of sharp broken rocks. Between myself and a mate we have had 4 flats and are looking for a better setup.

Are you getting pinch punctures - or snakebites as they are also known?

If so, then the answer may be to run slightly higher pressures otherwise "skin" the tube with an old one that you have split around its inside and wrapped over the new tube. Similar to having an UHD inner tube but easier to replace the tube.

Brian

Michael TTR250 · Veteran Member

I haven't looked at the tubes just taken the wheel in each time to have the tube replaced. I was running lower pressures 14-16 psi and lifted to 18-20 but still getting flats, what pressure would you suggest?

Flying Dodo · Veteran Member

For what its worth have been ridding with Vee Rubber ultra heavy Duty for about 3 years nearly all on dry and rocky ground at around 20 psi and havent had a puncture yet (and we have some vicious thorns here) so happy to suggest you try them - do you have tire grippers in the wheel to stop the valve getting turned and damaged?
Dave

Michael TTR250 · Veteran Member

Thanks Dave, I am leaning towards the ultra heavy duty. Yeah I have a rim lock on both front and rear (assuming they are the same as tire grippers). I do a lot of inadvertent smashing into rocks perhaps after a jump is that the sort of punishment that yours seem to cope with ok at 20psi?

Cheers, Michael

TTRfan · Super Guru

As Dave suggests, 20lbs should do it.

Running HD, and particularly Ultra HD, tubes at lower pressures allows them to move in the tyre under acceleration and braking causing rubbing and, eventually, ripping the valve out.

A tyre clamp does just that, clamp the tyre. It doesn't stop the tube rotating inside the tyre if it is under inflated.

If anyone needs convincing, look at the ridges of worn off rubber on the tube in the pic below. This is typical of many HD and UHD tubes I have stripped out.

Brian

Worn HD inner tube 2.jpg

Worn HD inner tube.jpg

Michael TTR250 · Veteran Member

Great pics an explanation as usual thanks Brian. Out of interest have you ever ran the mousse tubes or have an opinion on them? Most of the stuff I read about them says if you are not doing tarmac high speed riding they are fantastic and while 3-4 times the price of a ultra heavy duty tube I guess if you got 3 flats it's the same price without the inconvenience of the flats?

TTRfan · Super Guru

Never tried a mousse but I have friends who use them.

If you take your wheels into a tyre shop to have them fitted then no problem but for DIY fitters, it seems that you have to have a wheel stand with clamp and some pretty hefty tyre levers to get them on and off!

Not only check the price of the mousses but the fitting charge as well to work out the economics.

You also need to check with your tyre fitters if they recall what the problem was with your punctured tubes. If your problem is thorns then maybe HD tubes filled with tyre slime might be an option for you.

See

and

I will let you make your own mind up wink

Brian

Michael TTR250 · Veteran Member

Thanks Brian, definitely would not be thorns as do not go near any, my guess is slamming down on loose rocks was the culprit today. Would be taking it to a tire shop as will grabbing a new tire while the wheel is off.

Flying Dodo · Veteran Member

Valve damage can be a problem but I've found the vee rubbers (UHD) survive better here than others too, my theory was they move less with the clamps/grippers but happy to be corrected. I change tires and wheels myself so have avoided the mousse option.
Cheers
Dave

BM Steve · Guru

Here's something you may not of heard of

http://nuetech.com/tubliss/

It's hard to explain but it basically turns your tyres into tubless tyres so if you get a flat just put a plug in it

do a google and youtube search

lots of info on this system

I have one for the front tyre on my bike to replace the UHD Metzeler tube I have ATM, the UHD tube I have weighs about 1KG, the TUBLISS system weighs around 150g

so 850G of weight off the front end to help you get the front wheel off the ground much more easily

They cost a bit less than $150 AU but considering a UHD tube costs the best part of $50 and you still get flats and tyre/tube creep, my valve stems are all at an angle ATM because of it

Cheers

Steve

texasT · Senior Member

Michael TTR250 wrote:
Great pics an explanation as usual thanks Brian. Out of interest have you ever ran the mousse tubes or have an opinion on them? Most of the stuff I read about them says if you are not doing tarmac high speed riding they are fantastic and while 3-4 times the price of a ultra heavy duty tube I guess if you got 3 flats it's the same price without the inconvenience of the flats?

For what its worth, my grandson's KTM has a Heavy-Duty 'moose' tube in the front that I put on almost 2 years ago. Last weekend we put and new tire on and the MOOSE TUBE still looked new so we decided to leave it in and just put a new tire on. NO SHARP ROCKS here though, just stickers and dust. Might make sure the valve nut is snug.

I know they are not cheap, but I feel it's worth it. It usually takes me just over an hour to replace a tube/tire.

Terrence R · Senior Member

texasT wrote:
Michael TTR250 wrote:
Great pics an explanation as usual thanks Brian. Out of interest have you ever ran the mousse tubes or have an opinion on them? Most of the stuff I read about them says if you are not doing tarmac high speed riding they are fantastic and while 3-4 times the price of a ultra heavy duty tube I guess if you got 3 flats it's the same price without the inconvenience of the flats?
For what its worth, my grandson's KTM has a Heavy-Duty 'moose' tube in the front that I put on almost 2 years ago. Last weekend we put and new tire on and the MOOSE TUBE still looked new so we decided to leave it in and just put a new tire on. NO SHARP ROCKS here though, just stickers and dust. Might make sure the valve nut is snug.
I know they are not cheap, but I feel it's worth it. It usually takes me just over an hour to replace a tube/tire.

+1 on the Moose Racing heavy duty tubes. It's all I run and I've had zero problems. The only downfall is installing them. They're very firm and big, which makes putting them in a headache. Well worth the effort though.

Michael TTR250 · Veteran Member

Thanks to all, just to throw in another question noticed Terrence said "make sure the valve nut is snug" the advise from the tire shop is leave the valve nut loose (to the cap in fact) as it can save the valve if the tube moves, what the thought guys?

I have put a link on from my last ride to give a better picture of the terrain I ride in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPCOpEmHgAg

Cheers, Michael

TTRfan · Super Guru

See here

I oval out the valve stem hole. The reason I do this is that, over time, a tyre can creep on the rim and eventually pull the valve out of the inner tube. By ovalling the valve stem hole there will be enough room to allow the valve to tip over and give you early warning of tyre creep.

Also, you will see at the end of the web page that I tighten the nut up to the valve cap rather than the rim. This allows you to see any movement of the valve stem.

Brian

Michael TTR250 · Veteran Member

Perfect, I will do that. Thanks Brian

texasT · Senior Member

Michael,

Sorry Sir, I may have missed something about your original question.

Are we are talking about "regular" Heavy Duty TUBES here, or the tube replacement product that is called "Bib Mousse", like Michelin makes? I have never had any experience with Bib Mousse product, but know using a product like this on a bicycle will usually bend spokes (which IMO is worse than a flat), but that's on a bicycle.

I know it's not part of the original question, but I read Brian's link to tire/tube repair (re: valve nut question) and do understand why he is doing it that way. I would just like to add that there are other ways too.

...I searched on the ol' iner-web for more on the 2 nut question -

One place wrote back -

"For legal reason's we cannot offer mechanical or technical advice. Please review the link below."

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=593561

now I have more questions that answers

SO- I did a little more searching and asked my buddies at local race team:-They said-

-The (first) one inside goes tight to the tube – gives a little more support to the valve stem.

-The second one goes outside the rim to keep the stem from slipping back into the tire during install. Once the tire has been installed, and the pressure has been set, I always screw the nut up to the cap. This gives the stem some wiggle room should the tire slip on the rim. If its tight to the rim, and the tire slips, it will rip the stem off the tube.

Looks like this 2 nut question may have many answers.

fyi- I put 1 inside / 1 outside of rim. I snug (hand tight) the outside nut to keep dirt out of the INSIDE of tube. Otherwise, I don't know why tubes come with threads all the way to the rubber AND with 2 nuts, unless they were to be used. (No extra cap in there, right?)

greg

Paul13 · Veteran Member

I have Mousses in my bike, will never be without them now, less tools, no worry about a puncture.

Had a puncture once and that was enough to convince me to go the mousse route. Get them fitted locally about £100 per wheel, needs lubricating when you change tyres. It is best not to go over 50mph for long periods of time as the mousse can start to get too hot. Never a major problem to stick to that speed.

gives me peace of mind.