A forum for owners of Yamaha TTR250 trail and enduro bikes!

Now then folks..

Getting right back into my green laning and loving the TTR.

I am a familiar user of Memory map software for O.S Mapping and when I used a LandRover I had a netbook set up in the car with a gps receiver.

Question now of course is which is the best GPS unit to plonk on my handlebars??

Really relying on other users experience on this one as a quick browse on Amazon blew my mind with the choice and its very hard when you have no experience in the

field

 

perhaps a smart phone gps app (there are quite a lot out there)?

things to consider are:

is the app simple to use?
does the smartphone using the app have a good gps hardware capability (eg accurate, works under trees, quick first fix)?
does the smartphone have decent sized battery (assuming not connected to external power on TTR)?
is the smartphone reasonably robust and weatherproof?
can the app use stored maps (so map tiles don't need 3G to download - battery sapping and not possible in remote areas)?
can the app use FREE maps (like OpenStreetMap) or do they charge extra for maps?
will the app still function in airplane mode (usually needed to improve battery life)?

In the recent past, I have often thought that the ideal phone/gps unit would be a smooth circular disk in shape so it could be thrown into the nearest creek/stream as a "rock skipping" exercise to stop people playing with them at a stop so we could resume trail riding.

Other times I have thought (when lost) that all I needed was something to give me position (lat lon, or map coordinates),
so I could figure out where I was on my out of date paper map.

But nowadays, phones are supercomputers with capability to store maps at any level of detail and having GPS chips which
are superior to some expensive dedicated GPS units (like my own little used 2007 garmin etrex legend cx, purchased
for a motorbike trip in Mongolia) - the latest phones can use the Russian "GPS" (GLONASS) as well, for better performance.

OK, now I have a confession to make..
Actually I am a software developer, and after reading about the 7000km APC rally discussed in this forum, I decided that I would
like to go in the next rally, and as GPS was mandated, I would like to write my own minimalistic android app for the purpose.

So I would like to trawl for opinions on this forum - what do TTR250 riders need in a gps unit?
(for trail riding, NOT city street riding)

- do you need to create a track file for later use?
- do you need to follow a known route (eg a planned expedition)?
- if following a route, could you do without a map display (but displaying the route and your track/position)?
- do you just need an "I am lost, show me a topo map with my position marked" facility?
- do you want to be able to tweet/sms your position (if cell coverage permits)?
- do you need to play with, annotate, create routes for others to follow?
- if there is a map, must it be "track up" meaning the map shifts around trying to align with your heading,
or is a nice stable "north up" good for you (and if "track up", is it a problem if the map labels are not so readable)?

and most importantly, what have you actually tried that is crap, cluttered, confusing or bad?

BTW, Brian's previous link to his road angel post in the devongtrf forum is worth checking out - very informative!

John

On the 12V socket subject:

Just run a wire from your cdi through a 12V resistor (to be safe) & to the car charger.

Athough if you want to be able to charge it without the ignition on you will have to do the same but directly from the battery.

This thread will help with that... Fitting additional lights and accessories & upgrading electrical components click here

 

...........................................................................................................

Mounts:

Mounts can be found just about anywhere eg. ebay,electrical stores ect but it would pay to buy a good one when it comes to mounting something so valuable. Brian should know more on this subject.

...............................................................................................

I just bought a samsung galaxy ace phone that has a built in gps ect. ect. ect. & will work in conjuction with my new Contour plus gps headcam

.............................................

Jarrah.

-- Edited by barra8 on Thursday 4th of October 2012 09:58:29 AM

BM Steve wrote:

---

Hi Barra

I see in your pic that your Contour is running a Micro SD card slot.

Can you run a full size SDHC card like the one below ? I got 2 of these lately, one for the Canon still camera and one for the GoPro

$38.00 each, A bargain, here if you are interested, I buy all my PC gear from these guys

I have a spare 2g SanDisc MicroSD if you want it, I'll never use it, nothing to put it in

Send me a PM with your address and I'll post it up to you

 

Cheers

Steve

---

 Hey Steve,

                 Yes it is 32GB microSD Compatible . (I think mine only comes with a bluetooth connect card for smartphones ect. i will know tommorrow:)

If you get an adapter( like below) the 2g SanDisc MicroSD will work as if it was a SDHC card

Wow this picture is so much better than using my laptop  Much easier too

I think i'm falling in love with my Samsung Galaxy Ace phone already

.................................................................................

 

If you honestly don't want it i would be happy to take it off your hands. Thanks for your offer if you decide to keep it.

Jarrah.

 

-- Edited by barra8 on Thursday 11th of October 2012 09:15:24 AM

brindabella wrote:

---

So I would like to trawl for opinions on this forum - what do TTR250 riders need in a gps unit?

 

I think one of the most useful features would be to be able to (Easily via kmz files) import and export the following:

Tracks
Place Markers
Way-points
Notes
Photo's

into and out of Google Earth (The Program not the Browser extension)

Google Earth is the main program I use to find new places to go, it's far more useful than any Topo map I have ever seen

You can draw paths, add markers/Text/Notes etc... then export to your GPS unit and have it come up in the topo map

or record a path on your GPS and import it to GoogleEarth

This is a really good way to share locations and tracks in a universal piece of free software

as soon as developers make there app propriety it becomes very limited indeed so it needs to be easy to send to other programs without limitation

-   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -

Questions

- do you need to create a track file for later use?
Yes for the obvious reasons

- do you need to follow a known route (eg a planned expedition)?
Yes, a good feature

- if following a route, could you do without a map display (but displaying the route and your track/position)?
Yes and no, map overlay is easy to follow but waypoints and my track position would be enough for me

- do you just need an "I am lost, show me a topo map with my position marked" facility?
No

- do you want to be able to tweet/sms your position (if cell coverage permits)?
Absolutely not,  what a waste of time !!

- do you need to play with, annotate, create routes for others to follow?
Yes but not on a smart phone, they are tedious in the extreme to do anything accurate with, so yes, see above the dotted line

- if there is a map, must it be "track up" meaning the map shifts around trying to align with your heading,
or is a nice stable "north up" good for you (and if "track up", is it a problem if the map labels are not so readable)?
No, I don't have any problem reading north up maps, in fact I prefer them

and most importantly, what have you actually tried that is crap, cluttered, confusing or bad

I've tried a couple, can't remember what, that's why I now have a Garmin as my first cheap GPS
I will buy another Garmin one day, One that has the Birdseye Satellite Imagery built in for $39 per year

Hope that helps

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ra Arrived this morning. Now I just need to get memory installed. I presume I need an SD card with memory map on to replace the one in with he road mapping on?

Initially I just want to get it running in men map before importing routes etc.

Hi all

Like Jasperthehorse, the thread spurred me on to take the plunge, for the £ involved a Road Angel seems the way to go, so my 7000 navigator has arrived and I know where to get the mount (using the link in the Devon TRF thread). The sticking point is the cloning of the SD card.

Is there anyone (local?, I'm St Albans, Herts) that could clone a card to get me going?

PM me please if you can help

I will do a step by step account of the project and post up as well.
have just ordered a bar mount from the mount guys.com in the states as well.

Been doing a little bit of searching on the web googling "memory map installation on Road Angel 7000"

Some good stuff. This looks particularly interesting....

http://www.berkshirequadtrails.org/QuadForum/showthread.php?t=252

I have ordered a 2GB SD Card so eagerly await its arrival to get cracked on.

Interestingly I have just found a number of memory map "maps" installed on my device or card which I wasnt expecting.

Needless to say doesnt cover north yorks or cumbria which is my desired playground so will still have to crack on with it.

Region 4 is my "local" map.

Doesnt look to hard to download.

Ive been playing around on memory map this evening and the links seem straightforward. just need the bloody memory card to arrive to get going!!

 

How big is the .qed file?

I remember that when OS brought out a new Region 1 map it wouldn't run on the RA because of file size limitations. I reverted to the older mapping and all was OK again.

I think the limit may be 250Mb.

Try exporting a "visible" portion of the map and see if that opens OK.

Brian

Hopefully this will help many other trail riders and green laners out there who faced the same problems as me.

Step 1:-

Purchase a ROAD ANGEL 7000 Doesnt matter which model, navigator or adventurer, as the only difference is the data that goes on the SD Card.

Step 2:-

Purchase or accquire an SD Card, maximum capacity allowed is 2GB. Apparantley the architecture in the RA will only recognise up to this size. I want for a Sandisk and works fine.

Format the card and get set to go.

Step 3:-

I used a card reader to do the copying, pasting and building up of the new Data card. It seems way easier that using microsoft active sync and they are only a few pounds.

Step 4:-

Create a folder on your PC and copy the contents of the supplied Road Angel SD card to it.

Step 5:-

Create a second folder on your PC and follow this link to download some files you will need to make the Road Angel compatible with Memory Map.

http://www.memory-map.co.uk/downloads.htm

Scroll down to the bottom of the page and open the link. Extract the files into the folder you have just created on your PC.

Step 6:-

Okay, its now getting constructive. Stick your 2GB SD Card into the card reader and open it up on your desktop. You now need to copy and paste the contents of the folders from Step 4 and Step 5. I got a couple of messages about replacing older files with newer ones but I ignored and retained the older files.

Step 7:-

Fire up your memory map software on your PC and go to MOBILE DEVICES in the top tool bar. To be on the safe side go to SEND VISIBLE PORTION and select the area you need. Send this to the card reader directly. My mistake was trying to send 688MB across to the card and was getting loads of errors. Reason was that the RA couldnt cope with that size file. Dont know the exact maximum number of MB it can take but it certainly works with smaller 70 - 100MB maps.

At the end of this for well under a £100 you should have a quite functional and useable GPS device with Ordnance survey mapping ability

 

 

Good news for Road Angel owners that ride in different areas and would like to keep more maps on their SD card.

A Devon TRF member bought a 4Gb SD card from here and it works fine with Memory Map in his Road Angel 

The RA will normally only work with a 2Gb SD card.

Brian

A little late to the conversation here, but I ride with a Garmin Oregon 450T.

I opted for a handheld unit because I felt it better suited my needs than a "car" GPS. It's waterproof, very durable (it's fallen down ravines) and has long enough battery life that I don't need to worry about charging it on the go. This ones takes AA batteries so I always keep an extra set in my pack. It mounts nicely to my bars with a RAM mount. Detaches quickly so I can walk with it too when exploring.

Although I do have street maps loaded, I have never used the GPS for navigating in town. What I do use it for is a) exporting the .gpx track file and finding out where I rode, b) following someone elses trail that they have sent me, c) using the speedo, odo, clock, avg speed etc as a dashboard when riding

 Because I'm never following city streets, I never expect turn-by-turn navigation.

The touch screen is great because I can use it with gloves on, and it's really quick to load/unload tracks, mark waypoints and scroll around the topo map to get your bearings.

To answer brindabella's questions:

- do you need to create a track file for later use? Yes, absolutely
- do you need to follow a known route (eg a planned expedition)? Yes
- if following a route, could you do without a map display (but displaying the route and your track/position)? Sometimes, but the topo is a good reference
- do you just need an "I am lost, show me a topo map with my position marked" facility? No, map with tracks is needed
- do you want to be able to tweet/sms your position (if cell coverage permits)? No
- do you need to play with, annotate, create routes for others to follow? Probably no, I create tracks on the computer and import them that way
- if there is a map, must it be "track up" meaning the map shifts around trying to align with your heading? Always North is OK for me, but that's just my preference

-Kent

It might be worth having a chat with Des Newman of Ozi Explorer fame about your requirements - might be a big short cut 

I use Ozi and its a great bit of software.

RAM mounts are the Rolls Royce of mounts but its worth putting your device on a lanyard (fishing line?) just in case.

Brian

We use GPS routeing for the DB1K....

Dusty Butt 1000.. 1000km of tracks/trails/roads

in 2 days.. 12 plus hours a day on the bike..

http://www.db1k.com/

I use a Garmin Colorado with topo maps 

set the zoom to show 1km of track ..

just wish it had a bigger screen....

 

-- Edited by petenz on Saturday 6th of July 2013 11:59:52 AM

yeah, those garmin gps62c seem to be nice units.

As hinted in my previous posts in this thread, I recently used a GPS in a rally.
It required following supplied GPX tracks, riding all day, every day for 2 weeks.
The tracks were often very small and not on any of the usual base maps.

Although GPS units can run for a fair while on batteries, in this event,
you really needed to "hard wire" to the battery.

Strangely the base map was not so important, but Tracks4Australia, which is free,
was used by the organiser, so seemed a no-brainer.

For effective use the brightness had to be set to maximum, "track up" seemed best,
and when the going was tight, you had to be zoomed in and keep you wits about you
when temporarily off track (it is surprisingly easy to accidentally reverse your route).

I chose a garmin montana 600 for the task as I had spoken to others who had used it,
and it seemed solid, had a decent sized screen and had an available hard wiring cradle,
which did not rely on a weak USB plug connection.

Another possibility would have been a garmin zumo which has an even bigger screen,
but this is apparently a bit of a disaster to use when the desired route is off road,
as it has a mind of its own and tries to reroute you. good for around town though.

I had also been told that some people had problems with the standard RAM mounts,
as they tended to become loose and require repositioning and clamp tightening
from time to time. So I mounted my cradle+gps to the center of the handlebars
with rubber insulated clamp. This was neat but maybe passed too much vibration
to the GPS, and also was not the ideal position for "line of sight" while riding.

Because many others had issues with the battery connection (still needed when hard-wired),
I used the standard solution of wrapping a bit of bicycle tube around the the battery,
inside the case, and had no problems.

An unexpected problem with the montana setup was loading the base map using garmin "BaseCamp"
software. I ended up having to do it a different way, file by file.
This was strange as on another different much older and smaller garmin it loaded easily via BaseCamp.

In actual use I liked the montana for navigation following the pre-loaded track.
And I would recommend it.

Unfortunately, late on the 2nd day it somehow popped out of its cradle, presumably over some sharp bumps.
I had put too much faith in the "Garmin AMPS Rugged Mount with power cable" to clamp the GPS unit.
I should have used a tether (there is a small slot in the case to attach a string).

This lead me to discover what can be done with a phone application (plan B when GPS lost or broken).
This was an android app I wrote running on an HTC phone.
The app was "stand alone", not needing a cell connection like many phone GPS apps.
It also did not continuously track (to save battery) and was "north up" (lazy programming).
My app had a rudimentary background vector map of nearby tracks extracted from Open Street Maps.
Most importantly it had the rally track loaded.

So I found that you could indeed follow the rally route on this simple setup.
The phone got a position "fix" in a few seconds and I had a "cross hair" position
indicator which was much better than an arrow as it easily showed the distance
to the track or intersection.
However it was tedious, annoying and time wasting, as you had to get out the phone at every side track,
just to check.
By the way, with "north up" display it is nice to know where north is in the real world
(ie from the sun or from the device sensor).
As an emergency backup the phone app was fine, and the uncharged phone battery could last for days.

But to follow a route, you absolutely definitely need to have a nice visible continuously tracking
GPS unit mounted so it is easy to frequently glance at it while riding.

Another thing I can confirm is that it is certainly worth while to import / set up your route
on google earth and virtually preview it before the actual "on ground" riding.
(although more valuable time sucked up in front of the computer).

Whats the latest thoughts on a Trail riding satnav for the UK, is the Road angel 7000 still a good buy??

Cheers

Brian, is it the 1:25000 memory map OS maps I need to download for the Road Angel??

Cheers

These notes may help new RA users:

1. Charging the Road Angel from their support site:  "The correct way to charge your unit is using the mains adapter supplied with your Road Angel device. The switch at the back of the unit should be in the "ON" position. You should charge the unit for 6-8 hours or until the red light on front of the unit turns green. Please ensure you are charging the unit in this way and if the unit is still not holding a charge then please submit a ticket for our support team. Note: to allow the unit to charge at a quicker rate, we advise to put the unit into standby mode using the rubber standby button on top of the unit." 

2. To plan routes, you need to have have Memory Map and the OS mapping installed on the your PC/laptop. Plan your route on the laptop and, once complete, save it to the Routes folder from where it can be copied to the RA from within the MM programme installed on the PC/laptop.

3. You will need to buy a Memory Map licence to be able to access the OS mapping on the laptop after the 30-day trial period. The cheapest way to do this is to buy this licence pack at £0.99 see http://www.gaynors.co.uk/brands/memory-map/dp-71310/aa-caravan-camping-sites     and then register through the Memory Map software on the laptop using the menu option Help -> Licence Management

4. Mounting the RA on the bike. I prefer to use the RAM mounts but they are difficult to find on the interweb. This is the one I use shown on the RAM website but you have to source them elsewhere - http://www.rammount.com/CatalogResults/PartDetails/tabid/63/partid/082065077045066045049052057090085/Default.aspx  They are a silly price in the UK but cheaper bought in from the States - search on eBay. A mate uses this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350845501817 which is quite cheap.  

 

5. You will also need a power supply. I prefer to use one that fits the USB port on the LH side of the RA e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-TomTom-ONE-v4-v5-XL-v2-USB-IQ-Start-Car-Charger-/250880436450?pt=UK_CE_GPS_Accessories_Software_ET&hash=item3a69a3a8e2 - you can get them a lot cheaper but it shows what I use.

The RA is a great bit of kit and certainly cheaper than trashing your mobile phone 

Brian

Some GPS units allow you to Download OS maps Steve, plan your route with Software called Memory map and then download the routes to the Satnav. Many are the handheld ones and cyclist ones, but they are expensive, The Road Angel Navigator and Adventurer 7000's allowed you to use OS maps, and link to Memory map. I have just bought a RA 7000, cheap second hand on ebay, Its an early version with no Memory map application. Problem with them is they are a bit out of date and the company no longer supports updates, having said that, brian is giving me loads of help and I am in the process of trying to get the thing sorted out, if I can then I'll let you know... :)

I can plan a route on Google and send it to my Tomtom, so it sounds the same really. I need somewhere that shows boats? clearer though before I can get stuck into it proper. I usually get paper maps before I go anywhere, look at them then plan it on Google, or I have messed about with Tyre recently. I'm not the best though.

+1 you need some proper OS mapping software, i use Garmin Basecamp with GB Discoverer to plan my tracks/routes then just send them to my GPS . Iv'e never used Memory Map but from what folk say it seems to be good.
If you just want to view online OS maps www.bing.com/maps/

You just need OS maps mate, on the computer, try trailwise to find ROW's etc.. if you join TRF you can get full access to it, but there is limited access for non members :)