A forum for owners of Yamaha TTR250 trail and enduro bikes!

Aidan · Senior Member

Kick starter information

KNjonjo · Veteran Member

RE: kick start not working??

TTRfan · Super Guru

Aidan wrote:
this might be a stupid question but is the sprag clutch the same as the starter clutch (part 4GY-15590-00-00)

Yep - they are one and the same!

In general, there are 5 starter bits that tend to get damaged:

The starter motor – particularly the pinion can wear which will then damage the large idler gear.

The large idler gear – No. 1 in the pic below

The small idler gear – No. 4

The very large starter gear – No. 7 - unusual for the teeth to be damaged but the central boss that the sprag clutch runs on can lose its case hardening if a sprag breaks up or a worn sprag has been left too long.

And the usual cause of any problems – the sprag clutch or one-way starter gear – No. 10

If a “banging” sprag clutch isn’t attended to then not only can the gears be damaged but the generator casing will crack.

No point in replacing anything else that is damaged if the sprag clutch isn't replaced at the same time or else it will all happen again cry

This is an important bit of the TTR engine so please ask any further questions as I bet you aren't the only one interested!

Brian

TTR starter clutch.jpg

Aidan · Senior Member

well i have one on order from the US. so il just have to add it to my long list of things to do in the overhaul of the bike. the teeth on the starter motor seem to be slightly worn but i wouldnt say that they were worn enough to worry about.

one question i did have. a fly wheel puller? what is it, how does it work and where can i get one for a cheap price.

iv heard that you can use the rear axle of the ttr?

thanks

TTRfan · Super Guru

Kick starter information

Aidan · Senior Member

RE: kick start not working??

TTRfan · Super Guru

When the flywheel seems to be nearly welded on to its shaft it can be very difficult to shift.

If using the Yamaha tool then i give the nut a bang or two with a hammer. The whole thing shoukd be under as much tension as you can provide and the shock of the bang is usually enough to release it. My guess is giving the axle a clonk would have the same effect. At your own risk of course!

I guess I am luck as I have a small compressor which is enough to run a rattle gun which makes the whole thing a doddle.

Brian

Aidan · Senior Member

I might invest in the proper tools. But is the axle is the correct size to use??

Also how exacty does it work. From my understanding there is a wider hole through the fly wheel which a smaller hole is behind it?? Which pushes againsed the incoming bolt/ axle? And pushes the fly wheel towards the outside of the bike??

TTRfan · Super Guru

Could the threads on your axle have been damaged? Adrian certainly used his in his pictorial rebuild with no problem.

Yes - you have it sussed - the axle or extractor pushes against the end of the crankshaft trying to force the flywheel off the taper.

Brian

yamahaTT250R · Veteran Member

Yamaha ttr250 kickstart issue.

TTRfan · Super Guru

I am thinking out loud here so am happy to be corrected!

When you switch the engine off, it usually kicks back slightly. If the sprag clutch is worn this will allow its teeth to jam slightly on the large starter gear's boss. This means that occasionally when kick starting it might start to turn the starter gears and starter before disengaging.

Can't think of any other reason!

Brian

yamahaTT250R · Veteran Member

ok, thanks for the reply, so is this bad in anyway?

should i fix the clutch before it gets worse?

thanks

TTRfan · Super Guru

My theory could be wrong but I can't think what else would cause your symptoms.

If you aren't getting the dreaded "bang" on switch off then maybe the sprag is OK and doesn't need replacing yet.

If in doubt, it might be worth letting a trained mechanic at your local bike shop have a listen?

Brian

Lin · Senior Member

I think your theory is exactly right Brian.

Aidan · Senior Member

I had the same with my bike ( aussie 2000 ttr250) It got worse and worse over a month then the bang on cut off started. Sprag clutch was fried! If ur gonna get a new one ( sprag) may I sugest getting one from the USA as mr Yamaha in aus wants to charge almost tripple the price.

yamahaTT250R · Veteran Member

Actually i do get some sort of bang when killing the motor and i have been for a while but i didnt realise that could be the bang you are talking about so today i opened up the LH side cover and saw the starter motors gear and it had some small damage to two teeth.

i ordered everything i need including the sprag clutch, 6 crankcase bolts, flywheel puller, gasket from powersports in the US because its as aidan suggested that in australia they charge triple the cost!

hope this works.

Thanks for the help

-- Edited by yamahaTT250R on Monday 5th of December 2011 02:01:50 PM

-- Edited by yamahaTT250R on Monday 5th of December 2011 02:04:07 PM

TTRfan · Super Guru

Bad luck - that will have been caused by a worn sprag clutch. Best replace it asap.

The diagnosis seemed to have been spot on then.

Brian

yamahaTT250R · Veteran Member

Should i replace the starter gear aswell? or would it be ok to leave it the way it is?

thanks

Cubber · Super Guru

TTRfan wrote:
The diagnosis seemed to have been spot on then.
Brian

I wonder why he's called TTRfan

Martyn

TTRfan · Super Guru

yamahaTT250R wrote:
Should i replace the starter gear aswell? or would it be ok to leave it the way it is?
thanks

If a tooth is chipped or weakened then it is trouble waiting to happen (possibly).

It is your judgement call as you are on the spot and can see how bad the damage is.

If it is Idler Gear 1 that is damaged then, if not replaced, it could easily strip the starter motor pinion so please be watchful on this one.

Brian

Cubber · Super Guru

RE: kick start not working??

KNjonjo · Veteran Member

I replaced my sprag clutch (starter clutch) and the problem with the kickstart turning the starter motor went away.

barra8 · Guru

Kick starter information

barra8 · Guru

Thanks for the reply mate,muchly appreciated.Got all the gear as its only my shaft spline that is buggered (welded on). I just need to know whether i can use the shaft or whole assembly???

Here is a complete assembly that also looks the same..

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Yamaha-DT200R-DT-200-R-Kick-Starter-Shaft-Throwout-Gear-1996-96-/330765678795?_trksid=p3907.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D12%26pmod%3D330531620673%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D720191698800285497&_qi=RTM694642

Wish i knew for sure :(

EDITED Updated new link :)

barra8 · Guru

Here is the two part numbers,they seem to match but ??? eg..

TTR250 PART NUMBER : 4GY-15660-00 and xt 225 250 ect. :

Manufacturer Part Number: 30X-15660-01-00

I'm hoping someone can confirm these numbers???

TTRfan · Super Guru

RE: TTR 250 lever kickstart assembly interchangable with xt???

TTRfan · Super Guru

That link didn't work for me.

Details of the individual part numbers for the TTR kickstart are on page 1 here http://www.ysgear.co.jp/support/download/yamaha/pdf/4gy-w0795-01.pdf

It seems to be 4GY-15660-00 that you need.

The 4GY prefix tends to denote TTR250 only.

Brian

barra8 · Guru

Kick starter information

Tr1p1o · Member

RE: TTR 250 lever kickstart assembly interchangable with xt???

Tr1p1o · Member

I have found something for you :
http://www.megazip.ru/ru/bike/yamaha/view/1262/2808/53555#g53566
Xt250 1983 year Sky Blue (00G8) ; model 30X ; Region : Japan
Check the first part number.
It looks like 30X-15661-00-00 and 30X-15660-01-00 are the same thing....

Tr1p1o · Member

Btw the -01- doesn't means the year of the model ;)

barra8 · Guru

Thanks matey,i'm pretty sure it's the same part by looking at it and how close the numbers are. So if the -01- isn't the year model then i'm not sure as there is no info that i have found on this. By looking at the parts they look the same. Thanks for your help,i may just buy either tt250,it250,wr250,yzf250 as they are all the same part number just to see if they are the same smile

brindabella · Senior Member

hey, wait a minute, those part numbers actually have a meaning:

4GY means "first made to fit a TTR250" (not sure which year, Brian may know)
30X means "first made to fit an XT250" (1984 base model?)

many of the official yamaha TTR250 parts in this format don't start with 4GY, and this is because they were adopted from some previous model bike.

15660 is a particular part code (but NOT a screw or washer etc, which have different patterns, hyphens in different places).
the number is hierarchical - the first couple of digits are a group code (eg , engine, frame, carb etc).

15660 means "kickstart shaft" - nothing more. and there must be scores of different ones made by yamaha all bearing the 15660 sub code.

01 means "not a variant" (0) and "design modification number 1" (1)

the final 00 doesn't mean much (usually reserved for color etc)

I can tell you (from looking at the external end near the kickstarter lever of my TTR250 and WR250F) that THEY, at least, are physically different, although that's not much help.

but who knows? maybe even they can still, in practice be interchangeable, but the actual lever fit may have to be fiddled.
I wouldn't be surprised if the XT250 part worked in the TTR250l.

try googling "structure of yamaha part numbers".

By the way, am I the only one who finds the standard TTR250 kick start lever to be annoyingly positioned relative to the inside of your right leg? has anyone found an easy way to bend/file or modify it to get it more out of the way - eg bending in at top (or maybe the swivel stop cut back?).

Tr1p1o · Member

I didn't say that the kickstarters of Wr, Xt, TTR ... are the same. I just said that -01- doesn't means the year .
I know taht they are different.
The standart kickstart of TTR250 is comfortable to me :)

TTRfan · Super Guru

brindabella wrote:
By the way, am I the only one who finds the standard TTR250 kick start lever to be annoyingly positioned relative to the inside of your right leg? has anyone found an easy way to bend/file or modify it to get it more out of the way - eg bending in at top (or maybe the swivel stop cut back?).

I have found that the kickstart lever can catch in boots or leggings when you least need it! My solution has been to use a rubber band made from an old inner tube (worth keeping a few in your toolkit as these have a lot of uses!) which I attach to the top shock reservoir clip and then wind it around the top of the lever. Stops it waggling around at least!

Brian

barra8 · Guru

Its not the assembly i want to use (although looks just like mine anyway) it's the shaft. Also yes i do find it in the wrong spot lol prick of a spot smile

yamahaTT250R · Veteran Member

Kick starter information

barra8 · Guru

The kickstarter has a little ball with a spring pushing on it. Kinda like what holds a socket on a wrench.

Try to spray WD40 or parrot P**ss on it while moving it in and out of the start position to see if you can free the ball and spring up.

If not take it off and have a look at it

Maybe the spring is broken???

Let me know how ya go...

Jarrah.

yamahaTT250R · Veteran Member

hey mate ive checked but there doesnt seem to be a ball

Cubber · Super Guru

There was a chap on Thumpertalk had the same problem.

CLICKY LINK

He was told that when the kickstart lever is dismantled there's a spring and a ball bearing. confuse

Apparently he'd lost his ball bearing so fitted another and it worked. biggrin

Obviously he had to remove a field full of crud from the parts too.

Martyn

Cubber · Super Guru

Right, I've taken mine to bits and here's the gen:-

The crosshead screw removes and the two bits of the kickstarter can be seen here.

The ball and spring can be removed from their hole in the splined bit of the kickstarter.

The ball is 5.5mm diameter

The spring is 7.9mm in length (mine is) which may mean that it should be 8mm allowing for mine being tired! cry

I am now going back to the garage to clean the crud out, grease, check and re-assemble to the bike. biggrin

Martyn

Cubber · Super Guru

You're welcome - it's all part of the service.

It is now greased and reassembled - it worked well before but it's even better now.

The line on the shaft is how I made sure the shaft was replaced at the original angle.

I had to loosen the two allen studs holding the footrest to get the kickstarter off the splines.

It's all OK now.

Martyn

barra8 · Guru

Kickstarter assembly???

Haggis Hunter · Veteran Member

RE: Kick starter information

barra8 · Guru

I came across an interesting fact..

The ball bearing out of a back mountain bike rim axle is 5.6mm measured with a micrometer
The original bearing is 5.5mm

Maybe you need a bigger ball bearing so it does'nt fall out again?

You should only have to drill 6mm or so in the spring hole to allow spring travel for the bearing

If your worried about making the hole too big inside the lever itself you could just drill through from the outside and round it a bit in the lever hole (shown in uploaded pic) with a 5.5mm drill bit....

Maybe you don't have to do this and it will fit straight in?? confuse Obviously doing this while the kickstart is apart.

You could try it if you have an old maintain bike lying around (not the neighbours) smile you could try it but up to you.

-- Edited by TTRfan on Monday 27th of August 2012 10:09:37 PM

barra8 · Guru

Thanks Martyn that helped a little but this search box aint the only search box i have tried for this one believe me lol.

Sourcing a second hand one is hard let alone a BRAND NEW shaft to fit to my assembly cry

They must be like rocking horse sh*t lol biggrin

Miight have to settle for a second hand one on ebay but f***ed if i could find one lol smile

I understand about my questions being hard and did'nt mean it to sound like that as i am very gratefull for any help i recieve so thanks all.

Still pondering on what to do but i'll work it out i guess

Hopefully a good second hand one will show up at the right time??

Oh i know about the US ttr's not coming standard with kickstart and have purchased a bottom end (see profile pic)from the US and hence the reason why i need one.

Cheers.

Jarrah

-- Edited by barra8 on Friday 10th of August 2012 09:28:28 AM

Cubber · Super Guru

Your difficulty in sourcing NEW kickstarter assemblies is probably due to the fact that they are not supplied to all countries, e.g. USA specific TTRs do not come with them as standard.

If you are keen enough to want a BRAND NEW kickstart then you would be best ordering one directly with a Yamaha dealer/supplier.

Second hand examples are obtainable from the likes of Ebay (occasionally) and I do believe TotallyTTRs have sold a few as and if they were available.

You ask, "Is it just me or do i ask impossible questions??? confuse Nobody seems to reply??? confuse lol biggrin "
But you forgot the all important question mark "?" at the end. cry

Your queries are seen and if they can be answered then they are (or at least I try answering).
Some of your queries, however, are not as easy to settle and pose a bit of difficulty in their solution. confuse
Quite a few questions can be resolved by judicial use of the "search" facility at the page top. Your query may have been asked before. wink
There's no need to re-invent the wheel.

Martyn

barra8 · Guru

Kickstarter assembly???

yamahaTT250R · Veteran Member

RE: Kick starter information

barra8 · Guru

Kickstarter assembly???