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The TTR250 FAQ web pages -> TTR250 -> Repair and maintenance "stickies" -> Starter motor problems and solutions - megathread!
Post Info TOPIC: Starter motor problems and solutions - megathread!
oshanrube


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Starter motor problems and solutions - megathread!
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EDIT - See https://www.ttr250.com/Starter_information/TTR250_starter_motor_information.htm for a summary of this thread!

 

i checked the stater motor but it looks nice and new. i didnt remove the side cover because then i need a new gasket right?? 

it sounds kinda like its spinning but it doesnt engage the engine to spin it.but all sounds fine when i push start it. any ideas?? or the best is to put t to the garage?



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domski1


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It sounds like a sprag clutch / idle gear problem, you need to check the teeth on the idle gears and starter and check condition of the sprag clutch, this link should help

Adam.



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fwtian


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TTR 250 Starting Motor
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Guyz which cable that connects to the starting motor is the + and which the - ?

 

EDit: ok i found from the manual that the the cable at the top of the motor is the + and the down is - 

 

Now my question.

I have a second starting motor that i want to test if it works. I also have a battery and cables.

if i connect the cables correct shouldnt the motor spin?

I tried and the only thing i manage is to get some sparks.!?



-- Edited by fwtian on Sunday 20th of November 2011 10:14:53 AM

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Cubber


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The battery is negative earthed to the chassis - so the positive connection on the starter motor is the live side and the body is grounded.

Shocking, isn't it? smile

Martyn



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fwtian


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yawnyawnyawnyawn

so what am i doing wrong???

i connect the battery but i get only sparks...

 

I forgot to mention that i want to test the motor OFF the bike, in my house!! confuse



-- Edited by fwtian on Sunday 20th of November 2011 10:34:12 AM

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TTRfan


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To be honest it doesn't matter which way around you connect the motor on the bench. It should spin up one way or the other.

I can only think that you have a problem with the brushes and something is shorting out. Best to undo the two long bolts and have a look.

Brian



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TTRfan


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Starter motor problems and solutions - megathread!
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fwtian wrote:

If i hear a loud bang when i turn the bike off it is the sprag clutch?

The sprag clutch is the most likely suspect cry



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TTRfan


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TTR 250 Starting Motor
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fwtian wrote:

i am uploading some pictures so you can tell whats is wrong because i dont understand nothing :P

Difficult to tell for sure from the pics but it all looks in reasonable condition to me although the brushes are a bit worn. The pinion is good smile

I would be tempted to clean it up and put it back together and see if it works.

Just make sure that the there isn't any broken insulation or sign of shorting or arcing out on the insulated brush.

When putting it back together make sure the "barrel" with the field magnets go back the right way around coz if it doesn't the motor will run backwards - don't ask how I know disbelief

Also make sure the line markings on the casings line up.

Brian



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TTRfan


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I had are request from Joel in Australia for some ideas to sort out his after-market starter motor.

When he pulled the body off his starter's armature, the magnets had come adrift of the body (unglued) and hence got caught up in the starter armature itself.

This had been a bit of a problem for him over the past few rides, where the starter/solenoid would ‘click’ but no starter spinning up and heating/melting of the main starter cable if the button held in.

He thought it a dodgy solenoid but now realises it was because the starter itself was jammed up internally. This starter was lucky if it had 100 starts on it and a grand total of about 20hrs in service (on the bike)

This was the second motor he had bought from the same seller on eBay which both developed the same problem.

I have a box of dead starters most of which were taken out of commission because of damage to the pinion gear caused by a worn sprag clutch. I found a good body from an original starter motor and sent it over the water and was pleased to hear back that it fitted and the starter now works fine wink

I have heard from another UK owner who had the same issue but resolved that with a replacement starter motor as we hadn't realised that the original starter body would work with the after-market starter motors - but we do now! biggrinbiggrinbiggrin

Genuine starter motor bodies are on sale here wink

I hope that may help someone now or in the future.

Brian



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Cubber


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RE: Removing a starter motor
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My 1955 Triumph T100, and my Tiger Cub, both have copper washers on the oil feed and drain pipes and also a solid copper cylinder head gasket.  smile

It has always been advised in Triumph assembly literature to "soften" new copper washers and gaskets by heating to cherry red and quenching in cold water. wink

It has also been advised to anneal used washers to soften them before re-using.

I have always quenched once cherry red - doing this removes the scale (and burnt on Red Hermetite) from the head gasket.  wink

Martyn



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TTRfan


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From Wikipedia - In the cases of copper, steel, silver, and brass, this process is performed by substantially heating the material (generally until glowing) for a while and allowing it to cool. Unlike ferrous metals—which must be cooled slowly to anneal—copper, silver[1] and brass can be cooled slowly in air or quickly by quenching in water. In this fashion the metal is softened and prepared for further work such as shaping, stamping, or forming.

You live and learn! Thanks guys - that will speed up and ease the process wink

Brian



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barra8


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Earth wire to starter motor
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Hello all,

I am having a little trouble working out the earth wire to starter motorconfuse

I have never had one fitted to my ttr250 as we Australians love skinned shins smile

I have looked in the manual and know that the blue ''power'' wire coming from the starter motor goes to the blue wire with a white stripe (located same spot as stator ''ac magneto wires'') ''99% sure''

I was wondering???confuse

Is it just one earth wire that goes from the starter relay to the starter motor earth point?confuse

Or one earth wire going to starter with an extra (little wire) going to frame earth point or wiring harnessconfuse

It looks in the manual like it has one big wire going from starter relay to starter motor earth point with one extra little wire going to an unknown earth point but?confuse

If someone could take a picture of their earth wire to the starter motor it would be a big help evileye

Cheers.

Jarrah.

 



 



-- Edited by barra8 on Saturday 11th of August 2012 12:05:59 PM

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JamesMundey


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missing starter motor
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Hi guys

 

I have a 1998 model ttr 250 OE but it is missing the starter motor. I know i have to buy a new starter which doesn't worry me but i would like to know what other components i require besides the motor.

By the looks of things there is a spare plug dangling which I assume a part of the starter would plug into.

Would be greatly appreciated for any help

 

Thanks



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TTRfan


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Hi James and welcome to the forum!

The components needed to get the starter back in operation are:

  • starter switch on RH side of handlebars
  • solenoid (parts 18-22 in fiche below) with wiring to the switch block, battery and starter motor

Solenoid - coil and battery box fiche.jpg

 

  • starter motor
  • starter gears - see pic below - all these parts fit within the generator housing

TTR starter clutch.jpg

 

  • sprag clutch (a good one) as if there is one already fitted it is likely to be worn and have caused the demise of the old starter system! Item 10 in the above fiche pic.

If these parts are missing then you will find it expensive to buy all new components. However, the only part I wouldn't trust to buy second-hand would be the sprag clutch.

If you need any more information then just ask wink

Cheers

Brian

PS If you haven't already done so, ask Matt to email you a workshop manual - an invaluable aid and has all the parts exploded diagrams you could wish for! See here



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TTRfan


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RE: Earth wire to starter motor
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Battery earth wire.jpg



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langley91


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Electric starter issues
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Hi, Firstly, i have a 1993 TTR 250 OE... Reet, went to start the bike friday and it made some rather intriguing noises, none of which involved the engine and running. After bump starting it to get it home, ive drained the oil and stripped off the generator cover and starter covers etc.. The starter gear, has some teeth wear, and also some parts of teeth missing.... how i dont know The start motor gear has what appears to be a tapered shaft now, the rear half (closest to the starter body) has the full width starter size, the front half appears to have been reduced in diameter by half the tooth size.. How i dont know... Sooo, wondering, what would cause such a thing, as the sprag is super smooth and free and the engine runs in the usual manner... One final thing, i found when i removed the generator cover, cracks all over the inside of the start gear case... would this be a contributiing factor... All in all, im flummuxed and bummed... Any one know where i can get a generator case cover from ????

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Cubber


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Seems to me like it's going to be a bit costly! disbeliefcry

Have you seen this article regarding TTR starter motors? CLICKY THINGY

It may be that the previous owner had some issues that have been passed on to you.

At least some TTRs have a kickstart for emergencies. wink

Martyn



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langley91


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RE: Electric starter issues
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Mine doesnt have a kickstarter... Or i would abandon the tart start.... Any more info as to the issues you can give would e good.... An i dont like the sound of costly....

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domski1


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Ok, even though the sprag clutch spins freely the chances are that it is still actually worn and giving out a bang when switching the bike off.
New sprag clutch will be between £120-£180
Starter motor around £120
Idler gears around £80 each?

A very expensive fix then you have got to find a casing.

Finding second hand parts may seem cheaper but they could be in a similar state.

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jasparach


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starter motor problems
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Hi all, i recently went to start my 1996 white ttr and got nothing only 

a click from the solenoid so i figured that the brushes were stuck on the 

starter motor so i took it out following the guide on the forum and sure

enough the brushes were stuck so i freed them out and put the starter

motor back together having marked the cases beforehand to ensure

the correct refitting of the cases and put it all back together and went to 

start the bike but the sound of the starter motor doesn't sound right, when 

turning the engine over the starter is making a wailing/screeching noise

when turning the engine over. The bike will start and run but the sound 

of the starter motor is laboured in its operation accompanied by the above noise.

Anyone got any ideas as to whats going on or has anyone come across the like

of this problem before. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. John.



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TeeTotalR


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How much material was left on the brushes? They might be below spec.
Have you tried a jump start from a good battery? Occasionally a battery at end of life will appear to hold a charge but not be able to deliver sufficient current on start. (cold cranking amps)

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nikroc


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Sluggish starter motor
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Im having no joy at all in trying to start my ttr 250. On the original battery the bike seems really to struggle to turn over,almost wheezes. So I slaved my ttr 600 battery into the system(removed the original)..same issues. The 600 only has an electric start and the battery works fine.Its just over a year old.

Any ideas?...cry



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TTRfan


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starter motor problems
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jasparach wrote:

When replacing the cam chain tensioner on the head is there anything that i should have done that i didn't do or did i do something that
i should not have done when refitting it?

I just refitted in the hole for it and tightened the bolts to hold it in, is that right or wrong or did i upset something in the head?

 I am slightly worried about your description of refitting the tensioner John. I have copied the section out of the manual below. If you have bolted it in without winding back the tensioner then I am afraid you may have damaged the tensioner or over-stretched the chain.

Brian

 

Installing timing chain tensioner.jpg



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jasparach


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Continuing the saga with the bike, as you said TeeTotalR the battery was down so after
a charge it did start but isn't running right as in it is backfiring and and i took it for a short
run around the house and it just stopped. The last time i had it out it was fine and i started
it once in the workshop it it fired right up as it always did before but ever since i took it apart
to sort the sticking brushes in the starter it is acting up. When replacing the cam chain tensioner
on the head is there anything that i should have done that i didn't do or did i do something that
i should not have done when refitting it.I just refitted in the hole for it and tightened the bolts to
hold it in, is that right or wrong or did i upset something in the head? Can it then
be is something to do with the fuel system which is the only other thing i can of. Tis a tad bewildering
to say the least.



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barra8


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Sounds like fuel to me.. If you released the automatic tensioner you will have done it right. Easy just to check the cam chain has about 5mm play when pushed down.

I'd be doing a complete carby clean & see how that goes. Also a new plug would'nt go astray.

...........................

Jarrah.



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jasparach


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Aha! it's likely Brian that it could be as you described i knew when i was putting it back that
it probably was not the right way but in the absence of knowledge,ignorance was the next best
thing!
I must lay me hands on a manual soon before i do any more damage.Can the tensioners
be picked up 2nd hand easily and what of the cam chain, where does one get them from?.
The engine in all fairness could do with being rebuilt as it is leaking oil from the base gasket
and the starter motor splines are damaged on the starter and probably needs a new sprag
clutch as well. So i may start gathering up a few bits along the way in preparation for the
rebuild. Cheers lads for all the information and advice, this forum is a goldmine of info.


John


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TTRfan


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Starter motor problems and solutions - megathread!
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Hi John

I would take Jarrah up on his offer of a manual - an essential extra for your TTR in my view!

New tensioner available here plus we can quote for a new cam chain if that helps.

If it is just the base gasket leaking then a head & base gasket set might be the most economical way to go rather than a full gasket set. Check it is your base gasket and not the decompressor plug that it is leaking though!

Cheers

Brian



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jasparach


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RE: starter motor problems
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Thanks Jarrah i have sent you a pm in relation to the manual, Thanks again for that offer.

Brian, i will have to take the engine out of it because it really does need work, as well as what i have
already mentioned the left hand side engine cover over the starter is broken and weeping oil, that
was inherited from the previous owner as it has done it since i first got it and the spring return post is broken
and ingeniously cobbled back together with a block of aluminium holding it against the outer clutch cover.
I have spare engine cases that i bought from you sometime ago but haven't got around to using them yet.
I still need to find the left outer cover to sort the oil leak so all in all it does need work.
How would i know if the cam tensioner is gone, are there any obvious checks i can do on it?

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barra8


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RE: Sluggish starter motor
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This sounds like a bad earth....

Check main grounding point....You will find this at the regulator/ressistor...

Otherwize maybe your brushes on the starter motor have a bad contact.

Also check the lead from the battery for signs of burning,corrosion ect. ...WD40 may help as a tempory fix in this case or bad earth but replacing or cleaning will be the way to go.

......................

Jarrah.



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jasparach


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RE: starter motor problems
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Thanks Jarrah, over here in Ireland anything over €22 vat is applied to the overall price of the parts
and the shipping @ a rate of 23%, go over €150 and then you have customs duty and then the vat is applied
to the overall amount so the price of parts while cheap to buy in the States become very dear when you
have them over here, so a fella has to do a lot of work on the internet before buying anything. Your
setup is a far better way of doing it. but such is the way of the world.

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nikroc


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starter motor bushes
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Does anyone know if you can replace these bushes?..if so from where etc...



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TTRfan


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Starter motor problems and solutions - megathread!
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Brush sets now available here biggrin

Brian



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nikroc


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RE: starter motor bushes
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Here goes..took the starter motor apart to investigate why it way turning slowly when in situ on the bike.. Cleaned the bushes up,ensured they moved freely. Cleaned the surface they moved against,all nice and shiney. Put it back together as it came apart,also used a pictute from 'dirty biking' who did a write up on how to changec the sprag clutch etc as reference.

When back together the splined shaft will not turn at all by hand. If i back the two bolts out it will only turn freely IF the bolts are 'finger' tight.... it spins up very smooth when electric's applied....So do I take  shim out?......ANY suggestions????confuse



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nikroc


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SORTED.. left all shims etc as should be. Placed starter motor in vice. Put thread lock onto the two long bolts securing all three parts together. I then used jump leads to supply power whilst tightening both screws until I reached the point at which it started to bind. Then backed them both out incrementaly until it stopped binding. Left it alone to allow the thread lock to do its job..voila.biggrin



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nikroc


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Dohhhh....any please advise me as to the sequence of washers that fit on the bolt/stub on the starter motor...the one which you attach the power lead to..

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TTRfan


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starter live feed connection.jpg

Not exactly as the original but it should give you an idea when looked at with Martyn's fiche.



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Cubber


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The large fibre washer provides a lip that the rubber boot cover snaps on to cover the terminal and top nut. smile

Mines covered in Vaseline underneath the rubber boot. OOh err!  biggrin

Martyn



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RE: Sluggish starter motor
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anitabonghit wrote:

Same happens top mine. Mechanic says starter clutch bolt are loose. Easy fix.

 Not many people remember or know to put Loctite on these but it says so in the manual. These should not rattle loose if they are torqued correctly with Loctite.

Jarrah



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anitabonghit


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Starter Problems
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my bike won't turn over. motor and all gears are fine as i've had it appart and tested the wierd thing is that i've tested the clutch and seems FINE... WHAT IS GOING ON?

 

the starter clutch is just slipping severely when you try turning it over with the starter motor. starter motor and all the gears work perfect as i've checked it. the starter clutch which i've tested slips in one direction and grabs in the other. as it should, right?

it still turns the motor over but painfully slowly. thought i'd get a second opinion from enthusiasts before splurging the 500 dollars on parts that chances are i don't need. 

(just had new battery in)

Thanks 



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Take the spark plug out & to see if it is any better- if it helps but is still tight it may be on the verge of siezing the main big end bearing.

How much oil did you put in?

Was it smoking before this?

Is the stater motor making any irregular noises like it is slipping?

Anything else we should know?

 



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anitabonghit


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the bike still runs perfect i role start it as i need it as a commuter motor is perfect just did top end too

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TT-R250M


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Oh okay so no unusual noises and it starts- well can't be anything too badly wrong then. wink

It could be the brushes in starter motor have a bad contact or bad earth or you have bought a ''dud'' battery (it happens). Test the battery, then proceed to check/clean or replace bushes in the starter motor.

If your battery is not over 12-V & it keeps going flat- either it is a ''dud'' or the charging system is at fault.

Jarrah

 

 



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anitabonghit


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While I had the side cover off and gears disconnected I turned the starter over and it runs perfect. turns fine. When the starter brushes are rooted does that mean when the starter gets pressure on it it won't turn the engine over?

Thanks for all your input.

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Nidge61


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Starter suddenly stopped working
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Hi,

My ttr was doing well today until I fell off! When trying to restart the bike there is no response from pressing the starter switch. Battery is fine, headlight comes on when key is turned but does not dim when pressing the starter switch. Engine will start using the kickstarter. Any suggestions much appreciated. Thanks N



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TTRfan


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Lots of possibilities: switch, leads, connections, solenoid, starter brushes. Could you have damaged a lead/connection/switch when you had your off?

Does the starter turn when it is fed directly by the battery? If so, that starts to identify the culprit as either solenoid or switch.

Brian



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Cubber


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Nigel, I'd check the prop stand cut out switch and ditto the clutch lever isolator switch.

I doubt if the tumble would bust the starter motor or sprag clutch, so check the simple/accessible things before delving deeper.

Martyn

 



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dlowenst


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I had the exact same problem some years ago after a fall, before I had installed handguards.  As Martyn suggests, the clutch level isolater switch had been damaged in the fall.

Dave



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Nidge61


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Thanks everyone,

Checked(bypassed) the side stand switch but that's not the problem. Is there an easy way to check the clutch switch? I have disconnected it from the handlebar but to bypass it I think I need to lift the petrol tank to get at the connector, is that right?

Nigel



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Nidge61 wrote:

Thanks everyone,

Checked(bypassed) the side stand switch but that's not the problem. Is there an easy way to check the clutch switch? I have disconnected it from the handlebar but to bypass it I think I need to lift the petrol tank to get at the connector, is that right?

Nigel

 Yes, remove fuel tank, then unplug the clutch switch and bridge the connector (one piece of wire for both terminals) leading from the harness.

Jarrah



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TT-R250M


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Here is a diagram of the ''suspect'' starting circuit. The red is DC (direct current) and the green is AC (alternating current), disregard the rest. The AC current is the most likely cause.

yamaha-ttr250.jpg



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