A forum for owners of Yamaha TTR250 trail and enduro bikes!

TTRfan · Super Guru

RE: Oil cooler ?

Cubber · Super Guru

It appears there may be a "rabbit away" in the Yamaha book, Brian.

Unless the word "cooler" has been left out of the Yamaha information.

Their statments of 1.1L periodic and 1.2L with a filter change do not tie in with their ultimate pronouncement of 1.45L total. confuse confuse

As long as the level is maintained visible in the sight glass lines I don't hink it matters, does it????? confuse hmm

Martyn

TTRfan · Super Guru

Cubber wrote:
As long as the level is maintained visible in the sight glass lines I don't think it matters, does it?????
Martyn

You are absolutely right Martyn that, in practical terms, the sight glass is the master but I don't like mysteries confuse evileye

Brian

hanzo · Senior Member

If the sight glass was designed to show an oil capacity of 1.2l (blue model) with filter as recommended and the full mark being 3/4 level from factory then we add an oil cooler which was not standard and go by the recommendation to add a further 200ml to accomadate the cooler and lines then surely at rest the oil level will read higher on the sight glass. this was my original question however i was happy to take brians advice and went with using the sight glass as my reference my model being a 94 OE with cooler I think I used about 1.4 L in total as i poured 500ml into a jug 3 times and cursed that i did not purchase a funnel and poured carefully letting the oil settle at the sight glass mark I had approx 100ml or very near left in the jug at the end . So in this case I think I agree with Martyn if its reading on the glass right its right .
I dont like mysteries either Brian but sometimes you have to ignore the manual and go with the pratical in my expierience !!! come across same problem with cars and dipstick level according to specs !

TT-R250M · Super Guru

Cubber wrote:
TT-R250M wrote:

chrisstdt wrote:
It does say 1100cc on crankcase but i find this only just puts the level on the side glass so 1300cc plus id good for my blue bike
Cc's (cubic centimeters) does not relate to oil volume. It is to do with the stroke/bore/displacement.
Jarrah
That's not how the thread reads, Jarrah.
You responded to chrisstdt, incorrectly.
The volume (capacity) of the engine's swept volume was never in doubt. Only the volume of oil in the engine was being queried.
Martyn

Yes Martyn it's called confusion- Welcome to the world of internet mechanics.

The best policy is always- if in doubt, check the oil level glass after 30 seconds of engine operation and 16 seconds to let the oil settle.

Jarrah

petenz · Super Guru

TTRfan wrote:
In all the excitement, maybe my question has been overlooked!
What is the extra volume that takes it up to 1.45l (1,450cc) on the blue TTRs - where is that extra 250cc of oil hiding
Brian

extra 250cc of oil.... is that with or with out the kick starter gears/shaft etc to bring it up to the site glass...

TT-R250M · Super Guru

TTRfan wrote:
In all the excitement, maybe my question has been overlooked!
What is the extra volume that takes it up to 1.45l (1,450cc) on the blue TTRs - where is that extra 250cc of oil hiding
Brian

This is purely an educated guess but I would say that the 1100cm3 is the volume of oil in the crankcase. The rest is in the oil filter, cylinder head and oil line. It is the only thing that makes sense as 1100cm3 converts to 1.1 liters of oil.

The manual seems to confirm this by the oil change without filter-

Jarrah

texasT · Senior Member

hanzo wrote:
this may be a daft question I hope not .My ttr is fitted with an oil cooler which takes the oil capacity slightly higher than without I beleive so my question is when the bike is refilled with fresh oil should the oil sit in the sight glass at the 3/4 mark or slightly above to accomodate the cooler and how much in total would you recomend ?

the bike is a 94 OE

+1me smile on the ORIGINAL question about the LEVEL in the site glass/

As far as the "1100" question goes, it's the I.Q. of the TTR! biggrin

Seriously- I have found mistakes in every service manual I own and this may be one of them?

TT-R250M · Super Guru

texasT wrote:

As far as the "1100" question goes, it's the I.Q. of the TTR!
Seriously- I have found mistakes in every service manual I own and this may be one of them?

It is not the manual that is in question, it is the 1100cm3 that is stamped on the clutch cover. It does not relate to the total oil volume stated in the manual (which is correct). As mentioned 1100cm3 converts to 1.1 liters, not 1.45 so that is the problem outlined.

I am going to stick with my version until someone comes up with a better one.

Jarrah

LoopSoosStroop · Veteran Member

RE: oil cooler information

TTRfan · Super Guru

I have just checked the three bolts against the thread pitch gauge in my tap and die set and 1.25 is a good fit.

Brian

petenz · Super Guru

TTRfan wrote:
I have just checked the three bolts against the thread pitch gauge in my tap and die set and 1.25 is a good fit.
That said, I tried the M12x1.25 nut from my rethreader set and it starts to go on OK and then binds.
I am pretty sure its not a 1.00 thread pitch.
I wonder if Yamaha has used its own special thread pitch on these bolts?
Brian

1.25 is a very fine thread for a 12mm bolt...

standard 12mm bolt has a 1.75mm pitch..

fine thread 12mm has a 1.5mm pitch..

TTRfan · Super Guru

LoopSoosStroop wrote:

The bolt you have there, does it come from an OEM Yamaha oil cooler kit?

Yep - got two sets and they are all the same.

LoopSoosStroop · Veteran Member

Thanks again Brian, that looks like a good fit.

Now why on earth does it then bind up on the nut? You sure that was a M12x1.25 nut you used?

Just trying to figure this out. I'm not going to have much time when my oil cooler arrives from eBay.

TTRfan · Super Guru

Don't panic!

I just tried the 1.25 thread cleaner down the threads in a casing and its a perfect fit wink

Sadly my 1.25 thread cleaning nut appears to have some damaged threads cry

So the info on my pic appears to be spot on biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

LoopSoosStroop · Veteran Member

Fantastic. Oil cooler here we come.

I'll just have to custom make some brackets and have some hoses made up.

AGman · Veteran Member

I just noticed that the Australian delivered coolers were bigger than the ones on your Brit bikes.

TTRfan · Super Guru

AGman wrote:
I just noticed that the Australian delivered coolers were bigger than the ones on your Brit bikes.

Do you have any pics?

AGman · Veteran Member

Yes.

TTR250 cooler.jpg

LoopSoosStroop · Veteran Member

Would also like to see. I'm afraid that I'll be over-cooling my oil with the SV650 cooler:

oil cooler.JPG

AGman · Veteran Member

Looks like a pretty good size to me.

TTRfan · Super Guru

Here is a pic of the standard TTR250 oil cooler with the bolts alongside to show the scale:

AGman · Veteran Member

Yep, it's definitely smaller. Is it a 4 core? The one we had here was 7. Is there any Australians on this site that actually had a bike with the cooler installed?

TTRfan · Super Guru

I found Robin's email about fitting the cooler from April 2013 biggrin

The links may be dead now but it gives you the idea.

"There are a few key bits that made this one work.

The 90 degree bangos, the oil line and the line separator device.

The cooler came from Off The Road: http://www.off-the-road.de/en/Other-bikes/Oilcooler-acc/OTR-Oil-cooler-Honda-NX650-XR600-XR650.html?listtype=search&searchparam=cooler

Beautifully made and super tough.

The bracket I modified.

90 degree banjos here

To make them fit I slightly filed the clutch case with a half round file. See photos.

They came with the wrong thread bolt so I got some from merlin motorsport and cut them down to fit.: https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/search:banjo%2520bolt

High temp oil hose: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271126111020?var=570133634666&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Hose Separator was: http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/hose-fitting-accessories/automotive-plumbing-solutions-aluminium-hose-separators

Or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=hose+seperator&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Also your Totally TTRs bash plate gives just a little extra room to fit the lines in. The original CRD is to snug to the motor and wouldn’t work. "

WillsTTR · Veteran Member

I found a generic cooler in my shed that was destined for a big bore fitted 'pit bike' a few years ago. Might have to have a play

Our Summers are hard on air cooled bikes!

AGman · Veteran Member

If people want to hold off for a bit, I might have an option on the horizon. Don't stop experimenting though... :)

WillsTTR · Veteran Member

Sounds interesting AGman. Keep us posted.......Summer is just around the corner

petenz · Super Guru

I made this for the XT660R.... May even get around to putting it on sometime..

http://imageshack.com/a/img600/7246/ssa41851.jpg

LoopSoosStroop · Veteran Member

Here is my final setup:

Had the hoses made up for R600 (about 35 pounds). They are extremely sturdy, but I'll still build a crash bar around the cooler and hoses once my bash plate is complete.

-- Edited by LoopSoosStroop on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 08:30:10 AM

LoopSoosStroop · Veteran Member

Oil changes with a filter now take 1.5 l, 200 ml up from stock.

AGman · Veteran Member

Bit of an update...

This is the unit that was supplied to Yamaha Australia for their TTR250 oil cooler kit. I previously said it was a 7 core, but I think it was this 10 core unit. It is an Earls cooler which is now owned by Holley performance.

I have been in touch with Yamaha parts via a friend who runs a dealership, and they say they haven't had them since '03, which is rubbish because the photo I posted up of the cooler was from the '08 Yamaha dirtbike training manual. My guess is they have either thrown the parts out or they are just too lazy to check their inventory, I suspect the latter.

Yamaha bought the cooler off Earls here in Australia and got the other parts fabricated for them, probably locally. The guy from Earls told me they only supplied the cooler to Yamaha. If I could find someone who has one of these kits I could easily get the other parts made and then we have a kit.

So I am going to continue on my pushing into Yamaha and see if that works, otherwise I need to get my hands on an original item so I can get measurements, and then get the parts constructed.

-- Edited by AGman on Thursday 18th of September 2014 10:18:13 AM

ttboof · Super Guru

I'm following this i

I'm keen as long as it can be fitted to avoid damage

Paul C · Veteran Member

Me too ttboof. I'm starting to feel a winter project coming on. I was thinking of setting to on the milling machine but that last post is a good idea too. A little easier on the lathe perhaps.

Henry · Veteran Member

DIY Oil cooler

ttboof · Super Guru

I'm sure someone will post a link to the oil cooler thread .

What you are considering in my opinion would be a bit risky as the pipe is the feed to the head and may drain back when stopped delaying oil feed to the cams on start up .

The existing oil cooler points take the oil out earlier in the curcuit and provides cooled oil to the entire engine .the pics in the oil cooler link are very good

TTRfan · Super Guru

Here is the link to the oil cooler "super thread" wink

Henry · Veteran Member

Thank you guys,

Thanks TTboof for the advice and Brian for the super thread too. I will re draw the project since I saw a rather "cool" oil cooler drawn out of aluminum billet.

Btw do you think that I am correct regarding the clunky gear shift changes when the engine/gearbox gets hot during traffic commuting?

best regards Henry

-- Edited by Henry on Monday 20th of October 2014 12:27:23 PM

ttboof · Super Guru

i find that even on 40 deg c days the ttr shifts ok as long as the oil is changed regulary

in my case i ride mainly hard off road and use castrol active 4 oil as its not too expensive and change it aprox every 500 to 700.ks .

would last a lot longer on road

Henry · Veteran Member

TTboof,

I replaced the oil just recently, I will try another brand, one specifically for motorcyles.
Now that the weather is a tad cooler I notices some improvements.

at the end of the journey 17 km twice every day, the gear changes get clunky.

nice weekend to all :)

Henry

ttboof · Super Guru

Thanks for letting us know it's going . A 4stroke motorcycle oil is a good place to start designed for the higher temperatures and the wet clutch .

Keep us informed of your progress

Getting warmer here closer to 40deg C most riding days now

Henry · Veteran Member

Yesterday I changed the Oil ( and the filter ) to Motul 4 stroke 10-40 for motorbikes.
yes there is a noticeably improvement. :)

hope I will make a small Oil cooler in time for summer.

ttboof · Super Guru

Henry wrote:
Yesterday I changed the Oil ( and the filter ) to Motul 4 stroke 10-40 for motorbikes.
yes there is a noticeably improvement. :)

hope I will make a small Oil cooler in time for summer.

thanks for the update good to.hear how your going

texasT · Senior Member

Henry,
I have been thinking about your oil cooler idea. I am inclined to believe that it's all about LOCATION. I am not sure if it will actually work since you show it above the exhaust pipe and very close to the motor. Most coolers I've seen are located in the front of the motor. The position you show in your picture may be susceptible to brush or your leg too?
Greg

Henry · Veteran Member

Hi Greg,
I came across a thread which gave me a better idea. that of turning one ore two Oil coolers on my small lathe, from billet aluminum. I will locate them up front, keeping in mind that if I purchase a shorty header , they will not be in the way ;)

thats a to do project before next summer.

thanks for your input.

cheers, Henry

AGman · Veteran Member

oil cooler information

Markvan · Guru

Oil cooler engine block bolts removal

Markvan · Guru

Another question please. Am i right in saying the bolt that does go inside the engine cover is the backside of the bolt on the outside cover arrowed. (The top one )Thnx.

TTRfan · Super Guru

If an oil cooler is removed then the clutch cover will need to be taken off and the long bolt replace with the standard shorter one else the oil won't circulate. Don't lose the oil cooler long blanking bolt as they are not easy to source because of their size and thread.

See here for more info.

Brian

Markvan · Guru

Thanks Brian. I may leave it go for a while as he doesnt want to pull his clutch cover off as yet. Lucky i checked with you as if his motor blew from leaving the bolt in (and oil cooler off)i would never here the end of it.

Markvan · Guru

Seen this oil cooler on Twitter.