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Post Info TOPIC: Oil cooler information


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Oil cooler bolts
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Does Steve not sell them in his emporium of TTR goodness?


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Nope

Sorry



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Oil cooler information
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Hello. Sorry to revive an old thread but I just fitted an oil cooler from a local bike (Suzuki Raider/Satria 150) to my TTR with all the appropriate changes (blanking bolt, etc), and I have noticed that whenever I accelerate at lower RPM's there's a rattling sound on the head of my engine. Mechanic said it's due to the lower pressures caused by the oil cooler and shouldn't harm the engine too much but I'm a bit skeptic. I am planning to change my (pretty old) sparkplug and move the cooler a bit lower down as it is just barely touching the tank on its position right now. Anyone have any advice to give me on on this?



-- Edited by purdoy25 on Thursday 22nd of November 2018 12:27:19 PM

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Hmmm - doesn't sound right to me. It would be worth taking out the oil check bolt and turning the engine over to make sure that you have a good supply of oil going up to the cylinder head.

Brian

Oil check bolt.jpg



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Okay. Will have a go at it tomorrow as my neighbors might complain at this time (12AM) lol. How do you define a 'good supply' though? As I have no idea how engine oil pressure works...

 

I attached the Oil cooler in question. Does it look a bit too high? I would probably move it behind the header that's sticking out maybe that will help... Also I have to mention that the sound goes away while idling or when the bike is already turning at higher rpm's so I don't know what's up. confuse

 



-- Edited by purdoy25 on Thursday 22nd of November 2018 04:41:46 PM

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Try putting a screw in your exhaust header heat shield, that might help!

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Lol mmyeah about that... The last bolt got over-torqued and its head came off so the rest of the bolt is stuck there. Might've been a cheap crappy bolt...



-- Edited by purdoy25 on Thursday 22nd of November 2018 06:45:54 PM

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It's the main cause of worrying TTR rattles. Just saying...

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We suspect it might be the rocker arms not getting lubricated due to drop in pressure caused by the oil hose diameter being a bit too wide. Will try fitting a new oil cooler that can accommodate a narrower hose and maybe it might go away...

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No rocker arms on a TTR250. Cams act directly on "buckets" on top of the valves. I find the valves can be a bit rattly at the wider end of the acceptable gap though.
Please indulge me and take the heat shield off and try it before you spend any money. I'll happily shut up about it then

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mossproof wrote:

No rocker arms on a TTR250. Cams act directly on "buckets" on top of the valves. I find the valves can be a bit rattly at the wider end of the acceptable gap though.
Please indulge me and take the heat shield off and try it before you spend any money. I'll happily shut up about it then


 Agree 



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purdoy25 wrote:

We suspect it might be the rocker arms not getting lubricated due to drop in pressure caused by the oil hose diameter being a bit too wide. Will try fitting a new oil cooler that can accommodate a narrower hose and maybe it might go away...


 No..i think you are on the wrong track... even if the hose dia is big the rest of the system above is still the same with the same flow rates

so any pressure drop that could be cause by the bigger hose...the restiction in the remainder of the system would back up to the hose

and bring the hose pressure up..

 

..



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Hmmm I already tried moving it down and shortening the hose but seems like it is still clattering under load. Maybe I should just remove this thing... or am I just paranoid? O_O



-- Edited by purdoy25 on Friday 7th of December 2018 10:35:05 PM

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Just been fiddling around with a new oil cooler cheap as chips from China via ebay, so worth experimenting with. Made my own guard for it and removed one side mount to make it smaller. I've just done a full oil change from completely drained engine (my 325) and she drank 1500cc to get to the top line in the sight-glass. As long as there're no manufacturing defects appearing, I'll keep this on I think - much more capacity than the billet alloy cooler I had before.

None of the pipework that came with it was of any use, but for that price who cares?

 

P1010948.JPG

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-Engine-Oil-Cooler-Radiator-Kit-for-Suzuki-GN125-EN125-150-GZ125-150/153281178278



-- Edited by mossproof on Sunday 14th of April 2019 08:54:44 PM

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pricey wrote:

A question for the brains trust - which way up do you mount your aftermarket cooler? For example if I have a cooler with an inlet and outlet right next to each other, I'd mount the cooler with them facing up towards the tank. My theory is that this way the oil won't drain back into the sump when you switch the bike off. What do others think?

All the aftermarket coolers for XR650s are like this (not the xr400 ones behind the head stem) - there is a bloke doing kits on advrider for them. See these pickies below

IMG_0035.JPG

 

IMG_0034.JPG

Will the little Ttr have enough oil pressure to mount a cooler with the inlet and outlet up Like this? Or will it struggle?

Also where are people getting their fancy 90 degree banjos? I can't seem to track them down. 


 

I've been skimming through this thread this evening.  I've got an XS11 oil cooler sitting down stairs and a few months before it will start to get hot again.  Time and spares - dangerous combination for me.  Anyway...

 

Did anyone provide an answer to these questions regarding the potential effects of the inlet & outlet mounted above the cooler?

With a cooler like this, you'd need a drain plug too.

 

 

Regarding the additional engine oil volume arising from adding an oil cooler, I expect one significant question is how much oil drains from the cooler back into the sump when the engine is off?  

Assuming there is no retaining valve in the cooler and the oil hoses are at the bottom,  shouldn't the answer be "all of it".  Is there a valve in oil coolers generally?  At all?

That then makes me think that, if all the all drains back into the sump, then the oil level when the engine is running may be low - by the volume in the additional lines & cooler.

To maintain the correct oil level when the engine is running, you'd need to add that volume over the factory volume specs - oil only / oil & filter etc.

 

Two questions arising in my feeble brain.

1. If cooler draining occurs, the correct oil level will now be well above the oem lines.  So, dip stick? Mark new lines?  Worry about it when you see the oil level within the oem lines?    Dependent upon the volume of the oil cooler / oil lines obviously.

2. How high can the oil pump raise the oil?

 

Interesting stuff.

 

I can see I'll have to do some more reading if I do decide to fit one.  Of course, I may sell my Tiger 955 and the TTR for one bike.

The T700 is about to be released here. biggrin

 

 



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mount it so it can not empty back though the pump into the sump..
inlet at the top....

that is how I have mounted mine....



..

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Siphoning may well drain some of the oil whichever way up it is when the engine's off. The ttr had an oem oil cooler option (incidentally, with one top outlet and one bottom) so we can assume there is enough push in the pump to cope with the extra head, unless you're planning on putting a cooler on the handlebars?

Generally coolers don't have a nonreturn valve. Bikes with in-frame oil have one in the engine eg Honda xr400, 650 etc. They generally leak back anyway, so you check the oil level once the engine has been run for a warm-up period which pushes the oil into the places it's meant to be. I usually check my oil level at the end of a ride and top up then rather than doing it before going out next time - leaves me in a constant state of readiness (apart from tyre pressures in the Tubliss tube).

My chinese oil cooler holds 85ml, my OffTheRoad billet cooler (like Robin Webb's) only 15ml (I'll post pics later if I remember)

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petenz wrote:

mount it so it can not empty back though the pump into the sump..
inlet at the top....

that is how I have mounted mine....
..


 

And the outlet?  I'll have to deduce that oil on the outlet side is effectively of 'in the S bend' of the oil galleries. If so, that volume must then contaminate fresh oil at each change? Drain it at the lowest fitting each time?

Also, is the oil pump designed to prevent oil draining backwards when the engine is stopped?

It might pay to have a Captain Cook at an oil flow diagram.  I think there is one in the manual.

Why is it so? confuse



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In the Riverina.

'73 RD250, '76 RD400, '80 XS1100, '81 RD373LC, '96 Tiger 900/sidecar, '02 TTR250, and another XS11 - this time a chain drive Period 5 race bike that may be ready to race in early '22, or '23??



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mossproof wrote:

Siphoning may well drain some of the oil whichever way up it is when the engine's off. The ttr had an oem oil cooler option (incidentally, with one top outlet and one bottom) so we can assume there is enough push in the pump to cope with the extra head, unless you're planning on putting a cooler on the handlebars?

Generally coolers don't have a nonreturn valve. Bikes with in-frame oil have one in the engine eg Honda xr400, 650 etc. They generally leak back anyway, so you check the oil level once the engine has been run for a warm-up period which pushes the oil into the places it's meant to be. I usually check my oil level at the end of a ride and top up then rather than doing it before going out next time - leaves me in a constant state of readiness (apart from tyre pressures in the Tubliss tube).

My chinese oil cooler holds 85ml, my OffTheRoad billet cooler (like Robin Webb's) only 15ml (I'll post pics later if I remember)


 

Yeah, nah.  Not on the TTR.

May be something to consider on something with a fixed fairing, I suppose.  Or a road race bike.

 

 

I like how reading other people's words just puts questions into heads.  I have always tried to follow the advice that the only silly question is the one not asked.  Made me unpopular at the end of meetings sometimes, especially at beer-o'clock. smile

 



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In the Riverina.

'73 RD250, '76 RD400, '80 XS1100, '81 RD373LC, '96 Tiger 900/sidecar, '02 TTR250, and another XS11 - this time a chain drive Period 5 race bike that may be ready to race in early '22, or '23??



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I remember seeing step by step instructions for installing the stock oil cooler but cant seem to find them. I think the instructions may have been in Russian or something but the pictures were detailed. Anyone point me to those?



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