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Post Info TOPIC: Oil cooler information


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In all the excitement, maybe my question has been overlooked!

What is the extra volume that takes it up to 1.45l (1,450cc) on the blue TTRs - where is that extra 250cc of oil hiding confuse

Brian



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It appears there may be a "rabbit away" in the Yamaha book, Brian. 

Unless the word "cooler" has been left out of the Yamaha information.

Their statments of 1.1L periodic and 1.2L with a filter change do not tie in with their ultimate pronouncement of 1.45L total. confuseconfuse

As long as the level is maintained visible in the sight glass lines I don't hink it matters, does it????? confusehmm

Martyn



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Cubber wrote:

As long as the level is maintained visible in the sight glass lines I don't think it matters, does it????? confusehmm

Martyn


You are absolutely right Martyn that, in practical terms, the sight glass is the master but I don't like mysteries confuse no evileye

Brian



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If the sight glass was designed to show an oil capacity of 1.2l (blue model) with filter as recommended and the full mark being 3/4 level from factory then we add an oil cooler which was not standard and go by the recommendation to add a further 200ml to accomadate the cooler and lines then surely at rest the oil level will read higher on the sight glass. this was my original question however i was happy to take brians advice and went with using the sight glass as my reference my model being a 94 OE with cooler I think I used about 1.4 L in total as i poured 500ml into a jug 3 times and cursed that i did not purchase a funnel and poured carefully letting the oil settle at the sight glass mark I had approx 100ml or very near left in the jug at the end . So in this case I think I agree with Martyn if its reading on the glass right its right .
I dont like mysteries either Brian but sometimes you have to ignore the manual and go with the pratical in my expierience !!! come across same problem with cars and dipstick level according to specs !

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Cubber wrote:
TT-R250M wrote:

chrisstdt wrote:

It does say 1100cc on crankcase but i find this only just puts the level on the side glass so 1300cc plus id good for my blue bike


 Cc's (cubic centimeters) does not relate to oil volume. It is to do with the stroke/bore/displacement.

Jarrah


confuse  That's not how the thread reads, Jarrah. above.gif 

You responded to chrisstdt, incorrectly.

The volume (capacity) of the engine's swept volume was never in doubt. Only the volume of oil in the engine was being queried. wink

Martyn


Yes Martyn it's called confusion- Welcome to the world of internet mechanics.

The best policy is always- if in doubt, check the oil level glass after 30 seconds of engine operation and 16 seconds to let the oil settle.

Jarrah

 



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TTRfan wrote:

In all the excitement, maybe my question has been overlooked!

What is the extra volume that takes it up to 1.45l (1,450cc) on the blue TTRs - where is that extra 250cc of oil hiding confuse

Brian


 extra 250cc of oil.... is that with or with out the kick starter gears/shaft etc to bring it up to the site glass...



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TTRfan wrote:

In all the excitement, maybe my question has been overlooked!

What is the extra volume that takes it up to 1.45l (1,450cc) on the blue TTRs - where is that extra 250cc of oil hiding confuse

Brian


This is purely an educated guess but I would say that the 1100cm3 is the volume of oil in the crankcase. The rest is in the oil filter, cylinder head and oil line. It is the only thing that makes sense as 1100cm3 converts to 1.1 liters of oil.

The manual seems to confirm this by the oil change without filter-

2014-05-10_202007.jpg

Jarrah

 



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hanzo wrote:

this may be a daft question  I hope not .My ttr is fitted with an oil cooler which takes the oil capacity slightly higher than without I beleive so my question is when the bike is refilled with fresh oil should the oil sit in the sight glass at the 3/4 mark or slightly above to accomodate the cooler and how much in total would you recomend ?

the bike is a 94 OE   


 +1me smile on the ORIGINAL question about the LEVEL in the site glass/

As far as the "1100" question goes, it's the I.Q. of the TTR!biggrin

Seriously- I have found mistakes in every service manual I own and this may be one of them?



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texasT wrote:

As far as the "1100" question goes, it's the I.Q. of the TTR!biggrin

Seriously- I have found mistakes in every service manual I own and this may be one of them?


 It is not the manual that is in question, it is the 1100cm3 that is stamped on the clutch cover. It does not relate to the total oil volume stated in the manual (which is correct). As mentioned 1100cm3 converts to 1.1 liters, not 1.45 so that is the problem outlined.

I am going to stick with my version until someone comes up with a better one. wink.gif

Jarrah

 



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TTRfan wrote:


Oil cooler banjo bolts and blanking bolt.jpg



 

Guys, can anyone confirm that the bolt on the right in this picture is the correct blanking bolt?

The one in the picture is not M12x1.0, but M12x1.25. Count the threads, there should be 25 over a 25 mm section.

This is very confusing. M12x1.0 is almost impossible to get, but M12x1.25 manageable. I'm in South Africa. Busy fitting an oil cooler from an SV650, doing a desert ralley in Nov.

 

 



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I have just checked the three bolts against the thread pitch gauge in my tap and die set and 1.25 is a good fit.

Brian



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TTRfan wrote:

I have just checked the three bolts against the thread pitch gauge in my tap and die set and 1.25 is a good fit.

That said, I tried the M12x1.25 nut from my rethreader set and it starts to go on OK and then binds.

I am pretty sure its not a 1.00 thread pitch.

I wonder if Yamaha has used its own special thread pitch on these bolts?

Brian


 1.25 is a very fine thread for a 12mm bolt...

standard 12mm bolt has a 1.75mm pitch..

fine thread 12mm has a 1.5mm pitch..



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LoopSoosStroop wrote:

The bolt you have there, does it come from an OEM Yamaha oil cooler kit?


Yep - got two sets and they are all the same.

Oil_cooler_blanking_bolt_thread.jpg

 



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Thanks again Brian, that looks like a good fit.

Now why on earth does it then bind up on the nut? You sure that was a M12x1.25 nut you used?

Just trying to figure this out. I'm not going to have much time when my oil cooler arrives from eBay.

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Don't panic! 

I just tried the 1.25 thread cleaner down the threads in a casing and its a perfect fit wink

Sadly my 1.25 thread cleaning nut appears to have some damaged threads cry

So the info on my pic appears to be spot on biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin



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Fantastic. Oil cooler here we come.

I'll just have to custom make some brackets and have some hoses made up.

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I just noticed that the Australian delivered coolers were bigger than the ones on your Brit bikes.

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AGman wrote:

I just noticed that the Australian delivered coolers were bigger than the ones on your Brit bikes.


Do you have any pics?



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Yes.

TTR250 cooler.jpg



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Would also like to see. I'm afraid that I'll be over-cooling my oil with the SV650 cooler:

oil cooler.JPG



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Looks like a pretty good size to me.

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Here is a pic of the standard TTR250 oil cooler with the bolts alongside to show the scale:

OilCooler2.jpg



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Yep, it's definitely smaller. Is it a 4 core? The one we had here was 7. Is there any Australians on this site that actually had a bike with the cooler installed?

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I found Robin's email about fitting the cooler from April 2013 biggrin

The links may be dead now but it gives you the idea.

IMG_5631.JPG

"There are a few key bits that made this one work.

 The 90 degree bangos, the oil line and the line separator device.

 The cooler came from Off The Road:  http://www.off-the-road.de/en/Other-bikes/Oilcooler-acc/OTR-Oil-cooler-Honda-NX650-XR600-XR650.html?listtype=search&searchparam=cooler

Beautifully made and super tough. 

The bracket I modified.  

90 degree banjos here    

To make them fit I slightly filed the clutch case with a half round file. See photos.

They came with the wrong thread bolt so I got some from merlin motorsport and cut them down to fit.: https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s/search:banjo%2520bolt

High temp oil hose: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271126111020?var=570133634666&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Hose Separator was: http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/hose-fitting-accessories/automotive-plumbing-solutions-aluminium-hose-separators

Or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=hose+seperator&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Also your Totally TTRs bash plate gives just a little extra room to fit the lines in. The original CRD is to snug to the motor and wouldn’t work. "

IMG_5623.JPG

IMG_5613.JPG

IMG_5615.JPG

IMG_5620.JPG

IMG_5612.JPG

IMG_5557.JPG

IMG_5626.JPG

IMG_5630.JPG

IMG_5627.JPG

IMG_5629.JPG

IMG_5625.JPG

IMG_5632.JPG

 



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I found a generic cooler in my shed that was destined for a big bore fitted 'pit bike' a few years ago. Might have to have a play Our Summers are hard on air cooled bikes!

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If people want to hold off for a bit, I might have an option on the horizon. Don't stop experimenting though... :)

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Sounds interesting AGman. Keep us posted.......Summer is just around the corner

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I made this for the XT660R.... May even get around to putting it on sometime..

http://imageshack.com/a/img600/7246/ssa41851.jpg



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Here is my final setup:



Had the hoses made up for R600 (about 35 pounds). They are extremely sturdy, but I'll still build a crash bar around the cooler and hoses once my bash plate is complete.



-- Edited by LoopSoosStroop on Wednesday 17th of September 2014 08:30:10 AM

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Oil changes with a filter now take 1.5 l, 200 ml up from stock.

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Bit of an update...

This is the unit that was supplied to Yamaha Australia for their TTR250 oil cooler kit. I previously said it was a 7 core, but I think it was this 10 core unit. It is an Earls cooler which is now owned by Holley performance.

I have been in touch with Yamaha parts via a friend who runs a dealership, and they say they haven't had them since '03, which is rubbish because the photo I posted up of the cooler was from the '08 Yamaha dirtbike training manual. My guess is they have either thrown the parts out or they are just too lazy to check their inventory, I suspect the latter.

Yamaha bought the cooler off Earls here in Australia and got the other parts fabricated for them, probably locally. The guy from Earls told me they only supplied the cooler to Yamaha. If I could find someone who has one of these kits I could easily get the other parts made and then we have a kit.

So I am going to continue on my pushing into Yamaha and see if that works, otherwise I need to get my hands on an original item so I can get measurements, and then get the parts constructed.

 



-- Edited by AGman on Thursday 18th of September 2014 10:18:13 AM

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I'm following this i

I'm keen as long as it can be fitted to avoid damage



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Me too ttboof. I'm starting to feel a winter project coming on. I was thinking of setting to on the milling machine but that last post is a good idea too. A little easier on the lathe perhaps.

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Hello again smile

 

My 2 month old TTR 250 is doing more miles, and I am quite happy with it. Small "but" , I did change the oil as soon as I purchased the bike, once its cold, the gears shift easily but 15minutes into the traffic (and we have lots of first , second gear sloooww moving traffic with my son as a pillion ) the gear shift start to clunk a bit.

 

My idea is to make an oil cooler myself.

I am attaching a basic design, the actual oil cooler lines may be longer and maybe parallel to the frame like the original Xt ones.

I d like to ask

A. if the out take from the oilcooler is correct and also if the return is correct. I had the idea to cut and braze as per the picture.

B. as I only have brazing, can I use Brass or copper or steel or aluminum pipes ?

Any suggestions with pictures and tips are welcome. The project is strictly DIY, I have a small lathe , brazing , Aluminium 400 deg Celsius "brazing/soldering pieces" Mig ( doubt if I can use it for small work ) 

Have a nice week ahead buddies.

 

Henry from sunny Malta.

oilcooler.jpg 

 

 

 



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I'm sure someone will  post a link to the oil cooler thread .

What you are considering in my opinion would be a bit risky as the pipe is the feed to the  head and may drain back when stopped delaying oil feed to the cams on start up .

The existing oil cooler points take the oil out earlier in the curcuit and provides cooled oil to the entire engine .the pics in the oil cooler link are very good 

 

 

 



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Here is the link to the oil cooler "super thread" wink



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Thank you guys,

Thanks TTboof for the advice and Brian for the super thread too. I will re draw the project since I saw a rather "cool" oil cooler drawn out of aluminum billet.

Btw do you think that I am correct regarding the clunky gear shift changes when the engine/gearbox gets hot during traffic commuting?

best regards Henry



-- Edited by Henry on Monday 20th of October 2014 12:27:23 PM

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i find that even on 40 deg c days the ttr shifts ok as long as the oil is changed regulary 

in my case i ride mainly hard off road and use castrol active 4 oil as its not too expensive  and change it  aprox every 500 to 700.ks .

would last a lot longer on road 



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TTboof,

I replaced the oil just recently, I will try another brand, one specifically for motorcyles.
Now that the weather is a tad cooler I notices some improvements.

at the end of the journey 17 km twice every day, the gear changes get clunky.

nice weekend to all :)

Henry

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Thanks for letting us know it's going . A 4stroke motorcycle oil is a good place to start designed for the higher temperatures and the wet clutch .

Keep us informed of your progress 

Getting warmer here closer to 40deg C most riding days now 

 

 

 

 



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Yesterday I changed the Oil ( and the filter ) to Motul 4 stroke 10-40 for motorbikes.
yes there is a noticeably improvement. :)

hope I will make a small Oil cooler in time for summer.

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Henry wrote:

Yesterday I changed the Oil ( and the filter ) to Motul 4 stroke 10-40 for motorbikes.
yes there is a noticeably improvement. :)

hope I will make a small Oil cooler in time for summer.


 thanks for the update good to.hear how your going 



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Henry,
I have been thinking about your oil cooler idea. I am inclined to believe that it's all about LOCATION. I am not sure if it will actually work since you show it above the exhaust pipe and very close to the motor. Most coolers I've seen are located in the front of the motor. The position you show in your picture may be susceptible to brush or your leg too?
Greg

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Hi Greg,
I came across a thread which gave me a better idea. that of turning one ore two Oil coolers on my small lathe, from billet aluminum. I will locate them up front, keeping in mind that if I purchase a shorty header , they will not be in the way ;)

thats a to do project before next summer.

thanks for your input.

cheers, Henry

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oil cooler information
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Something else that might be of interest...the DR200/Trojan cooler looks like it might be an option, plenty of them getting wrecked as they dont handle farm use too good! It also has a fairly sturdy guard which could probably be adapted pretty easily to the TTR.



-- Edited by AGman on Friday 6th of February 2015 09:42:09 AM

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Oil cooler engine block bolts removal
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image.jpg

If i were to remove a mates oil cooler and take his oil line attachment bolts can i swap him mine with no damage to his motor. The other bolt also that goes inside the clutch cover would he have to have my (shorter or longer bolt ) to prevent engine damage. What im aiming to do is not attach cooler to my bike as yet , just remove all the parts And keep his running good. Main question is will his engine be ok if i give him my two bolts (in the photo )and he leaves special oil cooler bolt in behind the clutch cover. Thnx. 



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image.jpg

image.jpg

Another question please. Am i right in saying the bolt that does go inside the engine cover is the backside of the bolt on the outside cover arrowed. (The top one )Thnx. 



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If an oil cooler is removed then the clutch cover will need to be taken off and the long bolt replace with the standard shorter one else the oil won't circulate. Don't lose the oil cooler long blanking bolt as they are not easy to source because of their size and thread.

See here for more info.

Brian



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Thanks Brian.  I may leave it go for a while as he doesnt want to pull his clutch cover off as yet.  Lucky i checked with you as if his motor blew from leaving the bolt in (and oil cooler off)i would never here the end of it. 



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Seen this oil cooler on Twitter.
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image.jpg



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