A forum for owners of Yamaha TTR250 trail and enduro bikes!

JuJu · Veteran Member

Rack. Something to build when you are too sick to ride!

pedrosan · Senior Member

RE: Something to build when you are too sick to ride!

JuJu · Veteran Member

Thanks Mate! biggrin

BM Steve · Guru

Hey JuJu, that looks great, I broke mine a couple of weeks ago, dropped it onto some rocks , rack took all the impact so am going to build a sturdier one, can you post a pick from under the guard of how and where you attached the rack ?

Cheers

Steve

TTRfan · Super Guru

Nice rack Craig!

Rack building seems to ber the thing at the moment smile

I have just had a batch of 5 made up in steel and powder coated in silver - see pics below - and will be advertising them soon.

It is a very strong design as my thoughts were that many owners have their grab handles missing and the rack can be used instead wink

brindabella · Senior Member

hmm, this thread could get interesting.

there would appear to be a lot of possible rack mounting points, including the seat and rear guard front bolts, plus the possibility of stays onto the lower subframe (like the Cycleracks product). some easier to fit up, some stronger, some easier to make, some less obtrusive.

can any of you rack builders out there share why you chose certain mounting options over others?

and has anyone had bad experiences - racks that failed, or were a nuisance when riding, or made maintenance operations like seat and side cover removal overly difficult? - or commercial racks that didn't fit?

and Brian, will your new design hold a milk crate on top?

and does anyone have ideas about bigger racks which might support throw over saddle bags - main problem being the hot muffler, I guess? Cycleracks have an ingenious quick-attach flap which fits onto the sides of their rather wide luggage rack and would keep throw over panniers in place.

Cubber · Super Guru

Why not make a rack for the treckers? confuse

It could be adapted to use the heat of the exhaust and double up as a barbeque grill at the camp. aww

Otherwise, as Brindabella says, be large enough for a crate - milk or (preferably) beer - now there's a thing. biggrin

Martyn

TTRfan · Super Guru

brindabella wrote:
and Brian, will your new design hold a milk crate on top?

That was an important requirement for the design brief biggrin biggrin biggrin

TTRfan · Super Guru

brindabella wrote:
and does anyone have ideas about bigger racks which might support throw over saddle bags - main problem being the hot muffler, I guess? Cycleracks have an ingenious quick-attach flap which fits onto the sides of their rather wide luggage rack and would keep throw over panniers in place.

My engineering mate made up a stainless steel rack with side bars for another mate who was doing a bit of overlanding (see pics below) and they have worked well.

Brian

Nicks rack 001.jpg

Nicks rack 002.jpg

Nicks rack 003.jpg

Nicks rack 004.jpg

BM Steve · Guru

brindabella wrote:
hmm, this thread could get interesting.

can any of you rack builders out there share why you chose certain mounting options over others?

and has anyone had bad experiences - racks that failed, or were a nuisance when riding, or made maintenance operations like seat and side cover removal overly difficult? - or commercial racks that didn't fit?

Hey people, here's a Link to the first rack I made, bit of an experiment really, just wanted something to carry a tool bag on really, anyway mine broke because I didn't brace any of the stress points and the mounting points, well they just were not up to it, not enough surface area to provide a strong weld.

The other thing is if you have it to close to the back of the seat (See the second pic down) and to high it hits you in the backside sometimes when going over jumps and woops etc... till you get used to it

Anyway, the new one I have on the drawing board is going to be a lot different and will be designed to fit an Explosafe fuel container into securely

I think with the new rack I will add some custom mounting points, trying to use the existing ones is a pain in the butt.

Steve

brindabella · Senior Member

Steve, thanks for that link - looking forward to see the new design.

Brian, it would be nice to have a pic of your new rack on a bike.

And that other "overlander" rack looked interesting - side parts a bit too big and strong maybe, but at least they are removable, and the overall design makes me think it would be good to have a minimal basic strong mounting base onto which you could bolt or weld on whatever whimsical platform one wanted - i.e. it would be nice if someone totally solved the hard part of building the rack (the mounting), leaving us amateurs with the easy part.

here are some other links I found to ttr250 racks:

another view of the "overlander" rack Brian mentioned:
http://ttr250.activeboard.com/t44399638/rear-luggage-rack-for-a-1993-open-enduro/

a nicely set up ttr250 - the rack built by David Lambeth looks good but can't see details:
http://www.loisontheloose.com/africa/photopages_af/photo_ttr250_ready.html

another home made rack,
http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/showthread.php?s=5480160fd313afd12e40387a45d9799c&t=75438&page=2

a thread on this forum showing some commercial racks:
http://ttr250.activeboard.com/t44056435/rear-rack/

a very interesting rack (mounting in a different simpler and maybe BETTER way than usual):
http://ttr250.activeboard.com/t45476188/home-built-rear-rack/

Brian was selling stuff off this bike a while back - why anyone would want to ride with those ginormous hard panniers is beyond me, but the rack must have been strong:
http://ttr250.activeboard.com/t46728616/anyone-for-mongolia/

TTRfan · Super Guru

Here are some better pics of the rack on the "Mongolian" TTR - now on its way to Australia!

Panniers (7).jpg

Panniers (8).jpg

Panniers (9).jpg

Panniers (1).jpg

-- Edited by TTRfan on Tuesday 17th of April 2012 09:02:52 AM

TTRfan · Super Guru

Rack. Something to build when you are too sick to ride!

JuJu · Veteran Member

RE: Something to build when you are too sick to ride!

JuJu · Veteran Member

RE: Rack. Something to build when you are too sick to ride!

pedrosan · Senior Member

Yes, nice rack Brian ;)

How much are you asking and what finish if any are you planning?

TTRfan · Super Guru

pedrosan wrote:
Yes, nice rack Brian ;)

How much are you asking and what finish if any are you planning?

Not sure of the final price inc p&p yet but having had 12 made up recently by two different guys and, typically, after many many months of waiting both lots appeared at once (5 in ordinary steel and 7 in stainless).

I think I am going for a small profit margin to shift 'em quick and get some of my investment back wink

The finish on the stainless racks will be "natural" just as in the pics. They are exactly as they came from the fabricator with just a coat of clear melamine spray.

I really need a tidy TTR to mount the racks on and get some pics that do 'em justice. This means cracking on with the project TTR when I feel stronger!

I am behind with everything as I still haven't shifted this flu-type bug and literally have no energy to get out and do stuff other than the quick and simple like doing the tax disc pics. From the coughs and wheezes coming at me from the desk opposite it seems that Trish is now suffering with whatever bug I have - sorry Trish cry

Brian

JuJu · Veteran Member

This means cracking on with the project TTR when I feel stronger!
I am behind with everything as I still haven't shifted this flu-type bug and literally have no energy to get out and do stuff other than the quick and simple like doing the tax disc pics. From the coughs and wheezes coming at me from the desk opposite it seems that Trish is now suffering with whatever bug I have - sorry Trish
Brian

Did you have the left over flu jab from mine?

I am going riding this Sunday whether the virus likes it or not! So it has 3 days to jump ship or be evicted. P.s. are your racks being tig, mig, or stick welded? I am wondering about the long term strength of my tig welded unit.

TTRfan · Super Guru

JuJu wrote:
Did you have the left over flu jab from mine? I am going riding this Sunday whether the virus likes it or not! So it has 3 days to jump ship or be evicted. P.s. are your racks being tig, mig, or stick welded? I am wondering about the long term strength of my tig welded unit.

I had a very late flu jab so it may have been dodgy!

To the best of my knowledge the racks were MIG welded. Both guys are professional welders/fabricators so I have no concerns about the quality of their welding wink

brindabella · Senior Member

JuJu - do do know how/why the frame cracked - was a rack on the bike when it happened?

Brian - I'm sure the racks will sell (I might even be one of the buyers).

In another post about a rack very similar to your product, you referred to an OEM rack. Does this mean that your rack is inspired by or patterned after a Yamaha design (a rack for the raid or something) ? - if it was, that would be very encouraging - maybe those Yamaha engineers know something?

Anyway Brian, get well, get plenty of rest, close your eyes and imagine the post nuclear holocaust world, as archaeologists millions of years in the future (from another planet) trawl through the ruins and try to find clues to our demise. The first thing they find is your TTR250 rack, everything else seems to have been reduced to shards and sludge and dust. Spurred on by this find the archaeologists keep searching - after a hundred years a few more racks are found, and a theory emerges: a bitter feud between the plain steel rack religion and the stainless steel rack religion must have spiraled into a world destroying calamitous catastrophe!

Of course nothing is perfect, but given the choice of the 4 obvious mounting spots, the base plates of these new racks looks terrific.

In search of perfection, someone could presumably build some flexibility (eg rubber mount) where the main square section "ladder" part bolts to the 2 vertical base plate sheet sections, so less force is transmitted to the frame.

Another approach might be to add an extra top mounting which bolts to a plate underneath the plastic mud guard and also to the part of the frame under the seat at the back - the cross plate through which the seat bolts and onto which the guard bolts. This might help distribute forces.

Or hard core users (ie people who load tools and petrol onto the rear of their rack, ride 1000km over severely corrugated roads and then find a track with lots of challenging jumps, before finally flipping their overladen ttr250 multiple times end over end down a mountain) might like to reinforce (e.g) the left side frame member by adding a plate, or a strut to the pillion peg mount or something.

Some of the currently available alternative commercial racks, seems to have fitting problems according to forum reports, and mount in strange ways - e.g. one rack seems to use the bolt position where the left side plastic side cover is screwed on - this seems daft.

Another odd mounting choice is used by the Cycleracks product - but it makes good engineering sense. They mount the rack at the base plate under the seat, ignoring the 4 "obvious" points on the rear frame loop. This under-seat mount point is a strong part of the frame and is used effectively as a pivot, because their rack has its own diagonal stays which bolt to the ttr frame down towards where the subframe meets the main frame (towards the swing arm pivot). The Cycleracks product also has innovative "no tool required" side plates which can be attached to restrain luggage bags if needed.

"Perfection is the enemy of the Good".
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler".

TTRfan · Super Guru

biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Not sure which rack religion I will subscribe to yet wink

OEM rack pics below. My s/s version is an almost exact copy as far as the mounting plate is concerned. Making up the s/s copies of the side plates was a labour of love requiring the use of a very old and enormous fly press!

OE rack 002.jpg

OE rack 003.jpg

OE rack 005.jpg

OE rack 006.jpg

pedrosan · Senior Member

Brindabella - strong contender for best post ever!

Brian, this bug is hanging on grimly, Dr Pete prescribes half a pint of (used) engine oil taken twice a day before food.

ttr raid · Veteran Member

So a small profit means you'll be selling them for less than £40 then ?

TTRfan · Super Guru

ttr raid wrote:
So a small profit means you'll be selling them for less than £40 then ?

biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

If you can make some up for me of the same quality and design for £39 (or less) each then please let me know wink

ttr raid · Veteran Member

Photos of s/s one,box section, bit of round bar, 2 pieces 14g sheet total cost £6:36p and if you made it out of 3/4 "erw"pipe and squashed ends like yamaha do then cost £1:56p, don't know where some people find the need to charge over £100 for some stuff on websites these days

JuJu · Veteran Member

ttr raid wrote:
Photos of s/s one,box section, bit of round bar, 2 pieces 14g sheet total cost £6:36p and if you made it out of 3/4 "erw"pipe and squashed ends like yamaha do then cost £1:56p, don't know where some people find the need to charge over £100 for some stuff on websites these days

I think you may have missed the labour component.

1 Chinese grandmother/welder, 6hrs in a sweat shop... 50p

JuJu · Veteran Member

Brindabella, I think the bike may have been flipped a few times. It has had a tough life!

ttr raid · Veteran Member

Labour £30 per hour (for the sake of it), in 6hrs I made basically the rear rack and pannier system rack from nothing to fitting on my bike similar to the photos of the black system on this thread with no jigging up as it was a a one off so if i were to do all the necessary stuff for a production run I could easily make 100 of these systems in a week on my own, ready for blast and paint the following week, and yes metalwork is how I earn my living, 3/4 "ERW" pipe is £7:00 per 6m length

pedrosan · Senior Member

TTR raid, if you put in a 50 hour week and put out 100 racks, and were charging £30 per hour, the labour cost per rack would be £15.00. You've costed materials at £6.36, so the cost price per unit would be £21.36. If you applied a small margin of 30% you would still be under £30, a fraction of the price of anything else on the market. That's ace, but no use at all while its only in your head. Are you going to put your money where your mouth is and do a batch? Do you have a design you can show us? I personally am happier getting stuff from someone I know and paying a bit more for the privilege.

JuJu · Veteran Member

Finally some pics of the mounting of the mountings....

12%2B-%2B1

Left Rear

12%2B-%2B1

Left Front including the bar that joins the frame together

12%2B-%2B1

Right Side smile

p.s. I was very happy with the strength of the rack today whilst lifting the rear wheel over some rails to enter an area defined by people who obviously don't understand the freedom enjoyed by ttr250 riders! wink

-- Edited by JuJu on Sunday 22nd of April 2012 11:36:56 AM

TTRfan · Super Guru

I have had a request from a Raid owner for a s/h rack but I haven't got one in stock.

My recollection is that the Raid rack mountings are different to all of the OE ones in this thread as the Raid side pods cover the front mounting point used by most OE racks.

Can anyone help with some pics of a Raid rack please?

Also, if anyone has one for sale or is willing to make up a cheap Raid rack for my enquirer then please PM me your contact details and I will pass them on wink

Brian

ttr raid · Veteran Member

The raid rack mountings are built into the grab handles, think i know someone with a non-oe one but not sure weather he would want to sell it, do you want me to find out bearing in mind he would want to make a small profit ?

TTRfan · Super Guru

ttr raid wrote:
The raid rack mountings are built into the grab handles, think i know someone with a non-oe one but not sure weather he would want to sell it, do you want me to find out bearing in mind he would want to make a small profit ?

Yes please! If he does want to sell it can you PM me how much he wants and his contact details please?

Cheers

Brian

ttr raid · Veteran Member

Ok will contact him tonight to ask him

TTRfan · Super Guru

B&B and Whipps racks

TTpower · Veteran Member

RE: Rack. Something to build when you are too sick to ride!

brindabella · Senior Member

...some very good points there - sounds like a vote of confidence in the B and B rack!

from the pics, I see that they have 4 mounting points: the "usual" rear mounts (M8) , the muffler mount on the forward right (M8), and (strangely) the plastic side cover mount on the forward left (M6).

I wonder how this affects the ease of removing the side cover (eg to check air filter).

Normally, one would mount a rack with loctite and hope never to touch the bolts again, especially as typically the holes don't line up perfectly and a little force may be needed to fit it up (and maybe even more force needed after a few trail "incidents").

but in this case the left front rack mount would need to be frequently undone to get that cover off, unless B and B have done something very clever that is not obvious in the photo. Is this a hassle?

TTpower · Veteran Member

Its not to bad actually I just pop the panel off the front clip where it attaches to the frame and push the panel down to access the air filter and thats where my 12 volt plug hides too in the airbox where the holes have been drilled. Will post pics when I return home.

brindabella · Senior Member

well, inspired by TTpower's words, I ordered a "B and B Offroad" rack. Rang up one day, none in stock, so they scheduled an immediate build, and I received it in the mail from interstate, 2 days later. It looked good, and even had brief mounting instructions and a list of parts.

Removed indicators, grab handle, muffler bolt, and left plastic side cover. Thread locking gunk cleaned out from muffler nut. The side cover retaining screw was put aside and the rubber grommet removed and the hole in the plastic slightly enlarged. A trial fit (no bolts) showed that the left hand side was a bit tight so the rear mount was bent out a few more mm.

When bolting it up, the muffler bolt was done first as most critical and tricky to line up (btw the mounting instructions were wrong here the bolts for the right front and right rear were interchanged - the longer bolt being needed for the muffler) . The left side of the rack used spacers, and a little force was needed to get the rear 17mm spacer in between the rack side plate and the indicator mount. The left front (a smaller 6mm bolt) was put on using the special 24mm spacer which allows the mounting plate to clear the plastic and allow the side cover to swivel. Finally all 4 tightened using loctite.

The fitted rack touched the left rear of the seat cover, so I took the seat off and filed away some metal from the rack in situ. While I had the file out, I also filed part of the top of the rack so that a screwdriver could reach the taillight lens screws without needing to take the rack off. Then the indicators, which fitted nicely in the provided holes.

It all seems good and I agree with all TTpower's comments. I'm not worried about strap attachment points. The flex that TTpower mentioned seems very minimal - not even sure what was flexing, because of course the whole bike moves when you experimentally "wrestle" with the rack - maybe the left side of the rack moves a tiny bit or maybe the TTR rear frame loop has a tiny bit of movement. Anyway a bit of "give" may be good. But one thing to note is that because of the tubular spacers at the mounting points, it is important that the bolts all be good and tight, especially the rear ones (which have their own nuts).

Brian's racks still look good to me BTW - it would be nice to see a pic of them mounted. But being in Australia, I can feel good about "buying local", I suppose.

TTRfan · Super Guru

ttr raid wrote:
Ok will contact him tonight to ask him

Any news please?

Brian

ttr raid · Veteran Member

Sorry for the delay, he is working away away at the moment but as soon as i hear I will let you know

ttr raid · Veteran Member

have seen him today and unfortunately he wants to keep hold of it as he may start to make them and then sell them

TTRfan · Super Guru

ttr raid wrote:
have seen him today and unfortunately he wants to keep hold of it as he may start to make them and then sell them

Thanks for letting me know - I will pass the information on. Let us know if he does make some up please.

Brian

Markvan · Guru

Finished the carry rack. Put the original crab handle onto the rack. Even abit of padding for my pillion.