A forum for owners of Yamaha TTR250 trail and enduro bikes!

andy63 · Veteran Member

Rear shock rubbing on swingarm

Cubber · Super Guru

Oh dear, Andy, it looks as if the spring isn't the correct replacement and probably meant for another bike. confuse

I've never heard of this problem before, let's see what the Gurus say. blankstare

Martyn

andy63 · Veteran Member

Thanks for the reply Martyn. The shock looks like the right one although I've only managed to have a quick look at it. It seems to have all the bits associated with the one in the diagram on the forum. It must have been like this for a while as it has worn into the swingarm quite a bit. I've only used the bike twice since I've had it and can't say I've noticed anything wrong with it until I had new tyres put on the other day. That's when I spotted that it was rubbing .

-- Edited by andy63 on Thursday 13th of April 2017 07:55:11 PM

Cubber · Super Guru

In that case, Andy - you'd be well advised to check the bottom linkage bearings for play/slack.

There is usually ample clearance between the shocker and swinging arm and something must be bent, misaligned or knackered to cause that amount of damage. confuse

You've not been riding it off Gateshead's high kerbs (or High Level Bridge) have you? biggrin

Please check it out, it shouldn't clash.

This is what mine looked like clearance wise

ml9FP-lL6v_l2XJ7JASHzAp2GX0Ylc4nl4lO1gfy

Martyn

ttr steve · Super Guru

Martyn's right, there must be something bent or not aligned properly, even worn out bearings could not do that sort of damage

Can we have a picture from below the swingarm, showing the lower shock and relay arm please.

ttr steve · Super Guru

Is the lower retaining plate in place? like at the bottom of martyns ?

Looks like yours is missing and the shock is just hitting the swingarm??

martyns shock.jpg

andy63 · Veteran Member

Ah yes that sits higher than mine.
I guess there must be something wrong underneath as you say with the linkage. I know it was lowered by the previous owner and I think I have the original linkage in a bag of bits that he gave me.
I will have to check it out properly tomorrow. Thanks again Martyn.
Oh and no i don't jump the Gateshead kerbs,I'm not that brave on it yet. I've only done a bit gentle green laning up to now 😀

andy63 · Veteran Member

Yes I will have to do it in the morning though as I don't have lighting in the lockup,thanks.

andy63 · Veteran Member

ttr steve wrote:
Is the lower retaining plate in place? like at the bottom of martyns ?
Looks like yours is missing and the shock is just hitting the swingarm??

You could be right Steve,i will check it in the morning and put some pics up. Thanks for the help, greatly appreciated.😀

pug · Guru

Ok mine was doing that when I fitted the lowering link the bottom shock mount is screwed right up undo / back it off the shock shaft till it clears the top of the arm an bolt it back onto the link someone has wound it up before to lower the bike a wee bit an with the drop link its to close to the arm. the spring wont stay on without the plate so it's there you just cant see it as the spring is so low should be an easy fix

Martyn

-- Edited by pug on Thursday 13th of April 2017 09:01:15 PM

TTRfan · Super Guru

I recall this issue arising back along and have a feeling that it was because the bottom shock yoke was fitted the wrong way around.

The thread for the bolt should be on the LH side of the bike.

The bottom yoke isn't symmetrical as you will see from this photo:

Cut out in shock spring.jpg

ttboof · Super Guru

Agree with Brian (most likely cause ) its easy to reverse the yolk if everything looks OK you could back off the lick nut and turn the yolk out a few turns increasing the clearance

andy63 · Veteran Member

Baaah Easter weekend and families visiting lol.
Ok I've had a look at the lowering linkages and they're all in good condition.
The lower fork yolk has the threads on the left-hand side and the recess on the yolk faces the rear of the bike,so all looks good in that respect.
If I'm reading correctly what I need to do is release the bolt on the bottom yolk and wind the yolk out to give the suspension unit more lift,is that correct? (Left-hand bolt in the photo)

-- Edited by andy63 on Friday 14th of April 2017 01:14:47 PM

pug · Guru

Yep you will more than likely have to undo both bolts in the picture to make room to undo the lock nut an U fork on the shock bottom then if you back the fork off about 6mm an relock the bolt an try it. it should be ok then if not then go a turn or two more there is plenty of thread on it keep going till it clears if the damping rod's spinning trying to undo it get a pair of mole grips an rag pinched on it an some wd40

Martyn

andy63 · Veteran Member

Didn't get much time to sort it today but this is where I'm at for now. The u fork seems very tight so I've soaked it with gt85 and I will have another go tomorrow.

TerryK · Super Guru

You may be better to remove the rear shock completely as it may be easier to free up or adjust the yoke with it out & on the bench.

Rds Terry

andy63 · Veteran Member

It's out now but still being a pig to adjust,can't get it to budge,trying heat and lots of wd40 .

TerryK · Super Guru

Is the jam nut free & moving on the thread, sometimes the yoke may be seized to the shock rod. You may be able to pick up a 2nd hand shock complete & ready to go

Terry

andy63 · Veteran Member

Yes it's free Terry, I can move the locknut. I'm hoping I can get the yolk free from the rod,if not I might put the shock in somewhere to see if they can do it.

andy63 · Veteran Member

Yes it's free Terry, I can move the locknut. I'm hoping I can get the yolk free from the rod,if not I might put the shock in somewhere to see if they can do it.

andy63 · Veteran Member

It's not happening,think I'm going to have to put it in somewhere 😀

TTRfan · Super Guru

Maybe try some heat - hot air gun or blow torch?

andy63 · Veteran Member

Already tried heating it up but I will try again. Had it soaking in gt85 last night. I'm taking it to my late father in law's man cave, he was a brilliant engineer and there are still a lot of tools in his garage that might help. Unfortunately he died just over a year ago,he would have fettled it no bother,lol.

andy63 · Veteran Member

Nope it's not moving.
If I put the whole shock in somewhere for a refurb what kind of money would i be looking at paying?
I think it might need the refurb as the piston rod isn't returning very quickly when i compress it into the body?

pug · Guru

Heat an Diesel................ heat the bitch up dip it in Diesel do it 3-4 times if no go then leave the end soaking over night in a pot of it. I don't think the rod will ever move quickly as it's dampened if all fails cut the bugger off an get a new or make a new fork end Steve might have one in the shop. I hate it when I get beaten by something like this but I have never seen a nut I could not shift with two pair of 3 foot stillsons an 6 foot scaffold tubes on the handles. give it hell

Martyn

petenz · Super Guru

if you havn't got a way of heating it...
sit the end in a pot of boiling water for a while..

..

ttboof · Super Guru

Just checked most my bike the yolk is wound out about 17mm from where yours is so with further encouragement you should get the clearence you need

Looks like you guys in the cold climates have nasty corrosive stuff on your roads that combined with electrolysis between the two metals have made the parts hard to move keep up the heat and lube .

ttboof · Super Guru

looking at the photos the swing arm link looks a little different to mine , question for Brian is it possible there is a lowering link or an incorrect one fitted which may affect clearance as well (or is it just an early model part ) mines a 2010 and being 6ft3 haven't looked at lowering links biggrin .

TerryK · Super Guru

I have heard from a few guys the lowering links don't do the bike any favours, it upsets the way the shock ratio works.

As you are tall it is best to return it to stock & start fresh, you still have to get the yoke adjusted on the shocker rod, be careful not to damage the rod seal surface in the vice otherwise you might as well find a replacement straight away.

If you can get a new yoke you could grind the yoke away or split it in the threaded section to remove from the rod them just screw the new yoke on after cleaning up the threads if required.

Terry

ttboof · Super Guru

TerryK wrote:
I have heard from a few guys the lowering links don't do the bike any favours, it upsets the way the shock ratio works.

As you are tall it is best to return it to stock & start fresh, you still have to get the yoke adjusted on the shocker rod, be careful not to damage the rod seal surface in the vice otherwise you might as well find a replacement straight away.

If you can get a new yoke you could grind the yoke away or split it in the threaded section to remove from the rod them just screw the new yoke on after cleaning up the threads if required.

Terry

good advice , not talking about my bike just thinking out loud to check all possibilities in this case , just in case threes something else not quite correct . (agree not to play with linkages)

TerryK · Super Guru

The yoke is listed at $235 au crazy price

andy63 · Veteran Member

Right well here's where I'm at with it.
I've tried all of the above with no success. I'm reluctant to go any further with it as i just know that something is going to go wrong,like I will damage something or break something.
With that in mind I've been to a local specialist who has been recommended to me from a local bikers page. The lad has had a look at the shock and thinks it could be down to the fact that it has no gas in it. He agrees that winding the u clamp out would give a bit more clearance,but, as he says,they are designed with the pushrod being flush with the u clamp in normal operation.
Anyway he's going to renew all the seals,check it over for me, recharge it and we will see how it goes back on,fingers crossed.

mossproof · Super Guru

I can't see how a regas will solve the problem as the bottom spring plate will still be the same distance from the bottom bolt. At least get him to loosen the u clamp anyway while it's all in bits!

pug · Guru

+ 1 As said the bottom spring plate will still be the same distance from the bottom bolt as the drop link dog bone is longer so drops the height of shock at the arm end. hear is pics of the least you will get away with height wise that will clear the arm. as you can see I had the same problem after fitting the lowering link the fork end has to back off 6mm - 12mm off the dampening rod the movement of the swing arm as it go's up puts the shock bottom in an ark backwards towards the arm

Martyn

-- Edited by pug on Tuesday 18th of April 2017 05:47:28 AM

andy63 · Veteran Member

Yes the u clamp is going to be released as well as the re-gas and seal's being done.
To be honest I don't understand the rear shock at all but the way Kyle talked me through it, it seemed to make sense. It needs re-gassing anyway which would normally mean the seals need re-done. If that doesn't solve the problem I will have a look at changing the lowering link back to the normal link.
Oh and I've also been offered a secondhand shock for £90 so that's another option.

ttr steve · Super Guru

TerryK wrote:
I have heard from a few guys the lowering links don't do the bike any favours, it upsets the way the shock ratio works.

As you are tall it is best to return it to stock & start fresh, you still have to get the yoke adjusted on the shocker rod, be careful not to damage the rod seal surface in the vice otherwise you might as well find a replacement straight away.

If you can get a new yoke you could grind the yoke away or split it in the threaded section to remove from the rod them just screw the new yoke on after cleaning up the threads if required.

Terry

I have never heard of any problems, I have a lowering link on my bike and has always been a positive, as the standard bike can be a bit high for some. Even rider's taller than me 5'10" use them, as it gives you more confidence on getting your foot on the ground when off reading. My bike gets a proper work out and the shock has never hit the Swingarm or bottomed out. I sell loads of them, never had a negative feedback.

leigh · Senior Member

ttr steve wrote:
TerryK wrote:
I have heard from a few guys the lowering links don't do the bike any favours, it upsets the way the shock ratio works.

As you are tall it is best to return it to stock & start fresh, you still have to get the yoke adjusted on the shocker rod, be careful not to damage the rod seal surface in the vice otherwise you might as well find a replacement straight away.

If you can get a new yoke you could grind the yoke away or split it in the threaded section to remove from the rod them just screw the new yoke on after cleaning up the threads if required.

Terry
I have never heard of any problems, I have a lowering link on my bike and has always been a positive, as the standard bike can be a bit high for some. Even rider's taller than me 5'10" use them, as it gives you more confidence on getting your foot on the ground when off reading. My bike gets a proper work out and the shock has never hit the Swingarm or bottomed out. I sell loads of them, never had a negative feedback.

Its an interesting topic and one I didn't agree with until riding my DRZ with the lowering link.

The TTR in my opinion is fine with a lowering link, handles great and I think feedback I've seen from others agrees, also the WR250R gets similar feedback with a lowering link, people say its great. I wonder if people that say it ruins the bike do so without having tried it?

People assume a lowering link will mess up the handling, and it make sense that it could. However my DRZ with a lowering link is terrible, it's completely changed the dynamics of the bike. The backend is so soft and just drops no matter what sag you set, turns terribly. I wouldn't recommend a lowering link for a DRZ, it has screwed up the handling. I assume some bike linkage designs must cope with it better?

Have a friend with a standard DRZ and its a different beast, handles completely differently - and so did my DRZ before the lowering link. Thank god the TTR is ok, good ol Mr Yamaha.

Leigh.

I'll add I have bottomed out the suspension on jumps a number times, and the tyres have never hit the guards.

-- Edited by leigh on Wednesday 19th of April 2017 04:21:37 AM

-- Edited by leigh on Wednesday 19th of April 2017 04:44:30 AM

TerryK · Super Guru

leigh wrote:
ttr steve wrote:
TerryK wrote:
I have heard from a few guys the lowering links don't do the bike any favours, it upsets the way the shock ratio works.

As you are tall it is best to return it to stock & start fresh, you still have to get the yoke adjusted on the shocker rod, be careful not to damage the rod seal surface in the vice otherwise you might as well find a replacement straight away.

If you can get a new yoke you could grind the yoke away or split it in the threaded section to remove from the rod them just screw the new yoke on after cleaning up the threads if required.

Terry
I have never heard of any problems, I have a lowering link on my bike and has always been a positive, as the standard bike can be a bit high for some. Even rider's taller than me 5'10" use them, as it gives you more confidence on getting your foot on the ground when off reading. My bike gets a proper work out and the shock has never hit the Swingarm or bottomed out. I sell loads of them, never had a negative feedback.
Its an interesting topic and one I didn't agree with until riding my DRZ with the lowering link.
The TTR in my opinion is fine with a lowering link, handles great and I think feedback I've seen from others agrees, also the WR250R gets similar feedback with a lowering link, people say its great. I wonder if people that say it ruins the bike do so without having tried it?
People assume a lowering link will mess up the handling, and it make sense that it could. However my DRZ with a lowering link is terrible, it's completely changed the dynamics of the bike. The backend is so soft and just drops no matter what sag you set, turns terribly. I wouldn't recommend a lowering link for a DRZ, it has screwed up the handling. I assume some bike linkage designs must cope with it better?
Have a friend with a standard DRZ and its a different beast, handles completely differently - and so did my DRZ before the lowering link. Thank god the TTR is ok, good ol Mr Yamaha.
Leigh.
I'll add I have bottomed out the suspension on jumps a number times, and the tyres have never hit the guards.

-- Edited by leigh on Wednesday 19th of April 2017 04:21:37 AM

The info I heard was not brand or model related & good to hear that both the TTR & WRR are not effected by a lowering link as I own both & the WRR would be the 1st to be modified.
Cheers Terry

-- Edited by leigh on Wednesday 19th of April 2017 04:44:30 AM

ttboof · Super Guru

we got a bit lost along the way on this one a lot of great advice and progress as always , hope hear of a positive outcome soon .

combined info so far from all smile

shock catching on swing arm
needs a bit of clearance
once the shock is serviced , try winding out the yolk a bit ( maintain at least 1 and 1/2 times the diameter of the shaft screwed into the yolk )
if its still close , consider changing the linkages to standard or a brand that's known to work OK

good to hear the shock is getting a service , always a good thing to do .

andy63 · Veteran Member

Joy of joys,lol.
I've had the shock back and fitted it.
Kyle had wound the clamp out 6mm but when I fitted it I wasn't happy with the clearance. So I took it back off and adjusted it to 10 mm clearance,re fitted it and I'm happier with it like that.

andy63 · Veteran Member

ttboof · Super Guru

Great news . good to have clearence again .and a freshened up shock

Just check you have a bump stop on the shock shaft can't see one in the picks (hope its OK just an observation ) on a good job

andy63 · Veteran Member

No it needs a bump stop but I've managed to pick up a secondhand shock that has one on it so I will swap it over.

JOHNYBOY · Super Guru

mine is also catching since i fitted a lowering link i have noticed that the yoke on the bottom of the shock is wound right in but if i wind it out it will make it taller i might be able to adjust the top does anyone have a setting for the threads length on the top many thanks john

TTRfan · Super Guru

I tried counting the threads on a photo of the new shock I fitted and I reckon its about 12 threads showing above the lock nut but maybe someone can check to make sure John.

Brian

Cubber · Super Guru

I haven't got one to count the exposed threads of, but here are some pictures showing the threads for you to count:-

I think you will need good eyesight or a magnifying glass, Sherlock.

Martyn

Cubber · Super Guru

Here is one titled as "Raid Shock Absorber"

Raid shock absorber 001.jpg

Martyn

JOHNYBOY · Super Guru

many thanks gentlemen ive sorted it not many threads out according to pics but now non start on starter just a faint click not a loud click will have a look tomorrow was alright before i did shocker may be bad connection hopefuly