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The TTR250 FAQ web pages -> TTR250 -> Repairs and maintenance -> No more spark - Need diagnostic help
Post Info TOPIC: No more spark - Need diagnostic help
Ultrawill


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No more spark - Need diagnostic help
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So, shortly after resolving my engine ping/knock sound by replacing the carbuerator joint,  me and my brother on an identical 2000 TTR-250 went on a 3 day trail with a couple trucks called the Dusy Ershim in Northern California.  Exactly half way through the trail with about 15 miles to civilization in either direction, the bike stopped giving spark(At about 10,000ft, I normally live at sealevel).  It had been having trouble starting where the engine would turn over, but wouldnt fire unless we spent a lot of energy bumpstarting it at which it would very reluctantly start. It ran fine once it was warm and would start back up just fine if the engine hadnt cooled down, but if it cooled down, the electric start wouldnt fire up the engine, just turn it over. I had a similar problem about a month prior at which point i didnt have time to investigate why it didnt start, and just put it away but when i started it a couple weeks later, it started up with the electric start just fine. It got progressively worse each day on the trip and eventually failing during lunch on the 2nd day.  The engine had about 2 hours to cool down and we tried towing it and bumpstarting it for an hour at which it occaisionally ran, but would die after about 15 seconds or so.  We tried swapping parts back and forth between my bike and my brothers including the spark plug, and the plug wire, and we tried his ignition coil and CDI in my bike, but to no avail.  My CDI and spark plug worked in his bike just fine, so we knew it wasnt those two, but we hadnt tried my ignition coil or plug wire in his bike.  Ive got them both back home now and i can swap parts to test it, but am running out of ideas as to what it could be.  We think the stator/pickup coil could possibly be going bad but i really cant afford a new stator at the moment and want to do the best diagnostics before i buy a new one.  Also, of what i have read, a bad stator seems to show symptoms of running fine when cold, but then not running when the engine is warm, which is the opposite effects I am having. Been testing all the connections with a multimeter, but cant seem to find anything out of the ordinary according to the service manual. 

Summary: Currently no spark.  Bike has had progressively more difficult time starting over the course of a week or so leading to eventually no start in the middle of a trail after 2 hour lunch at 10,00ft.  Ran just fine when the bike was warm, but very difficult time starting when cold.  I have an identical working TTR250 to swap parts with but need help figuring out what to try. 

Let me know if you guys have an suggestions of what to swap or ideas what might be wrong, Ive got a little over a month before my next trip to figure out whats wrong but I have time to try whatever you guys can think of.  Thanks in advance for any help.

Heres a link to my former thread in regards to my engine ping/knock in case theres any details in there i forgot to mention, although this issue seems to be resolved at this point. http://ttr250.activeboard.com/t60829505/occasional-engine-knocking-help/

 



-- Edited by Ultrawill on Wednesday 30th of September 2015 05:23:56 AM

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2000 TTR-250 living at sealevel in California, United States.  I mostly ride technical desert and mountain trails with standard gearing.  Been riding since I was 5 and never turned back.  

 I love my Bible and my motorcycle, most important things in life.
srad34


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Whats it jetted like, running lean? - Whats the fuekl quality like
I would swap the coil, plug lead and plug, plus checking the coil wiring but the issue could also be earth related. If you are getting a spark no matter how weak, the coild pack/plug lead would be my thoughts...

Plus if you have another running bike, I would use that on your next run out till you get yours sorted!

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TTRfan


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Are your valve clearances in specification? 

Sounds like the stator is on its way out as you have swapped all the other parts that might fail and they are OK.

Can only be stator, coil, lead/plug cap or plug. Not much else on the ignition side to go wrong.

Brian

PS Welcome to the forum!



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hanzo


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Starter solenoid?? Dont think youve mentioned that in your post worth swapping them over just to rule out everything on electrical side and worth checking valve clearance on dead cold engine .



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Pendo


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Hi - sounds similar to what happened to me, bike was hard to start, eventually wouldn't. Ended up replacing the stator and wow, bike starts real easy now. Sounds like you are on the right track, swapping coil, lead, plug, CDI.
Yamaha Australia did recommend replacing the coil with the stator, they said a dodgy coil could cause a stator to eventually fail. So I replaced the stator, coil and lead at the same time.


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Ultrawill


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Darn, I was really hoping to avoid replacing the stator. Not the cheapest fix. Thank you guys for all the help, I like this forum a lot and I'll try to help out when I can. I've got 3 different ttr250s between me my brother and a buddy of mine. From what it sounds like, my stator is bad though. Question though, can a bad stator backfees power to burn the cdi? We swapped most of the parts on the trail between mine and my brothers bike to try to see what the problem was including the cdi, and couldn't figure it out, so we gave him his parts back and he finished the trail over the next two days and it ran fine. Once we got back to the garage though, we tried switching a couple parts back and forth again double checking out diagnostics, and now his bike won't spark either. Mine got progressively worse, which was most likely due to the stator but after trying parts back and forth, his won't spark either anymore. Ran fine before we swapped parts in the garage. So I'm curious if there is any way that my bad stator could have killed my cdi somehow and killed his when we tried switching parts. We tested the cdi by using a multimeter to to test the resistance between white/red and white/light blue on the plug above the engine as per the service manual(which says it should register between 190-230 ohms) and we both registered about 10k ohms which seems astronomically high. But that would mean both our cdi's went out simultaneously, or that putting his cdi in my bad stator bike somehow killed his cdi. Or we just did a FUBAR on the test and aren't doing it properly.

Okay summary: can my bike with a bad stator somehow have burned both mine and my brothers cdi's while we switched parts to figure out my problem.

Sorry for my all the problems. I hate only asking for help, but we've tried our best on this and can't seem to figure it out. I'm really tight on cash and so I can't replace things liberally, but any testing suggestions or confirmations of dead parts is really helpful. Thanks again in advance for any help.


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2000 TTR-250 living at sealevel in California, United States.  I mostly ride technical desert and mountain trails with standard gearing.  Been riding since I was 5 and never turned back.  

 I love my Bible and my motorcycle, most important things in life.
Ultrawill


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With the valve clearance you guys mentioned, I haven't checked it yet, but would that have progressively failed and eventually cause it not to start or spark? Also, it ran fine once the engine was warm(when it ran). As far as the starter solenoid goes, it has no trouble turning over, the only issue is that it won't spark so I don't think that's the culprit. I'm going to bring my buddies other ttr250 tomorrow to cross check components and connections and resistances and such, but I don't want to swap any parts back in forth in danger of doing whatever may have happened to my brothers bike. Basically just going to use it as a comparison module, no swapping on this one.

The only issue either of us is having at this point is that we aren't getting any spark but I'm fairly sure my stator is bad anyways.

__________________

2000 TTR-250 living at sealevel in California, United States.  I mostly ride technical desert and mountain trails with standard gearing.  Been riding since I was 5 and never turned back.  

 I love my Bible and my motorcycle, most important things in life.
Ultrawill


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Posts: 8
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Other note, the bike has an aftermarket fmf pipe with jetting done by the yamaha dealership at sea level. I'm not sure exactly what the jetting is currently, but its run fine for 12+ years my friend had it. It was probably running lean on the trail because we were at 11k ft elevation,, but again the issue is that there's no spark at this point.

Do you guys have any experience or opinions as far as aftermarket stators go? The OEM one is about $320 or so, and the aftermarket ones I've found are closer to $100-$150 but with the price difference I don't know if I trust the reliability. Any experience with aftermarket stators going bad or not running at full capacity as opposed to the OEM replacement? And sadly I can't borrow any bikes from anyone as they are all planning on going riding with me in a month.

Sorry for all the posts, I just didn't want to have a book as a single reply. Thanks again for any help.

__________________

2000 TTR-250 living at sealevel in California, United States.  I mostly ride technical desert and mountain trails with standard gearing.  Been riding since I was 5 and never turned back.  

 I love my Bible and my motorcycle, most important things in life.
Dutchkma


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I lost spark on my '01 TT-R250, followed diagnostic flow chart in the factory manual. Resistance of the pick up coil was to high above specs so I ordered a new stator which is the only way it comes. Ordered a coil also due to age of bike. Fired up easily in two cranks after installation.  still installed the new coil after because I had it. Found the most reasonable parts on E-Bay.



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rallyben


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Hey guys, I've been thinking about this problem with the no spark and the pickup coil failing. I know the pickup coil is not sold separately, but there are a few other bikes out there that do have a separate pickup coil you can purchase and wire up without having to replace the entire stator assembly. Seeing as the factory service manual spec's out 200-330 ohms for proper pickup coil resistance, could one maybe find another pickup coil with the same resistance, assuming the mounting and configuration of the coil are physically the same, and replace just the pickup coil? From what I've found online already, Yamaha had a ATV called the Grizzly/Warrior in the early 1990's that uses a pickup coil rated for 200 ohms. I found a factory service manual and the tolerance for that specific pickup coil is like 160-220 ohms and from the looks of the pictures of that pickup coil, it appears to mount the same and looks very similar to the TTR250 pickup coil. If the pickup coil fits correctly, do you think this could work as a replacement? I know the operating resistance is slightly lower, so what about adding a small resistor to more closely match the TTR's factory spec'd resistance?

By the way, I'm Ultrawill's brother and the one that owns the other TTR250 that he mentioned has the same problem.

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