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Super Guru

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Carb problems, issues and advice - this is the "mother" thread!
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A friend Dave has a low mileage 2005 TTR250 and it developed a problem that appeared to be carb related. The symptons were erratic runing when the throttle was shut with the engine sometimes cutting out altogether.

I lent him a good spare carb (now on its way to Australia!) to try so as to identify whether his carb was the problem - and it was.

After a long hard think,  Dave manually moved the throttle quadrant whilst putting a finger on the slide. He found there was movement or slack on his carb but none on mine so he took off the top of the carb.

He found that the two piece bracket that links the throttle quadrant to the top of the slide had a small amount of free play. He took it off and peened the arm back on to its mounting, put all back together again and his TTR is now running perfectly biggrin

On the older carbs I have, the arm is all one piece as per the diagram here http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/oem-parts/YAMAHA/2004/TTR250/CARBURETOR - see part number 4 - but if you have a later bike and suffer a similar problem best to take a look.

I will take some pics of a later carb next time I have one stripped to show exactly the area to check.

Brian



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Carb rebuild advice
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I suspect my question is aimed at Brian, but anyone feel free to chip in!

I need to strip, inspect, clean and rebuild the carb on my TTR. I've had the carb off before to sorth the head and following Brian's pictorial guide it was a piece of cake.

However, I have no idea what to expect when I open up the carb. What can I safely remove, what should I be checking, which gaskets need replacing, etc.. An idiots guide would be appreciated!

The problem I am trying to solve is a stutter on low-speed pick-up. The bike starts, idles and runs at mid to high revs beautifully, but just coming up above idle it lacks power and stutters. Winding the throttle wide open gets me through it but it's annoying and the bike didn't do this when I first had it.

Thanks in advance,

Giles



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Hi Giles

Another coincidence! I have had two TTRs recently with the same symptoms and it turned out to be blocked or partially blocked pilot jets.

I invested a year or so ago in an ultrasonic cleaner and it works brilliantly on carbs cleaning the internal petrol ways as well as externally. The TTRs both started and ran smoothly after their carbs had the treatment.

Regarding the pilot jet, I haven't worked out a way of getting at it without taking the carb off - sorry!

You need to get it out and soak it in carb cleaner and give the carb body a good spray of the stuff as well. That should sort it.

If I get the chance (Mrs TTR has got me on DIY duties today cry) I will do a show and tell wink

Brian



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This Thumpertalk article has loads of suggestions and as Brian says, the pilot jet comes up regularly as a problem.

CLICK LINK

Martyn



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Pics as promised!

Don't forget the advice on taking out the carb here http://www.ttr250.com/Removing_carb/TTR_carb_removal.htm

These are all the tools you will need for a basic strip:
Carb strip 005.jpg

Start off by removing the two screws and taking out the diaphragm and check it isn't damaged. It makes sense to replace the two little O rings (part number 5Y1-14397-00-00) when re-assembling.

Carb strip 006.jpg

The pic below shows the carb stripped as far as you need to go if just cleaning jets. My advice is NOT to take the float assembly off without very good reason as you risk breaking the support post arrowed in red. The retaining pin is usually very tight no

Pink arrow is airscrew, green arrow is pilot jet, blue arrow is main jet and its support.

Most carb leaks seem to occur because the float bowl gasket (part number 4GY-14384-00-00) gets flattened over time. For the amount of hassle involved in putting everything back together only to find a leak, I advise putting a new one in if it looks "flat!!

Carb strip 007.jpg

 

Make sure you don't lose the little brass thingy arrowed in red below. It has been known for them to fly across the garage (never to be seen again) when blowing out the float bowl with the airline disbelief

Carb strip 008.jpg 

Not much more to add really other than to pop it all back together and wind the airscrew out 2 to 2.5 turns before putting the carb back on the bike wink

 



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sdm


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One other thing to keep in mind is to make sure your valves are adjusted and within specs. I chased the same problem you described on my 03 and when I checked the valve clearance they were in need of reshimming. I tore in to the carb numerous times thinking that was the culprit but as soon as I got the valves adjusted the problem went away. Just one more catagory to check...
Sam

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Thanks all for the advice so far.

Full of confidence now, I'll get stuck into the carb at the weekend. If any idiot can do it, this idiot can!

carb first, then valve check if that fails to cure it.

Gilessmile



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Absolutely perfect thanks Brian - part numbers and all!



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Super Guru

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More carb information
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Just had this email from John. I absolutely accept that the carb info on the FAQ and elsewhere is confused and contradictory.

John gives a simple solution to the "bogging" on the Australian TTRs - see below. Feedback would be appreciated. I know of a few other blue TTR owners who feel that their bike is over-jetted with the 147 main jet.

Brian

 

I noticed in your site and other forums, a mass of info about ttr250 carby problems (some of it contradictory).  I was looking because my

2011 aust model had a "flat spot" / "stumble" / "hesitation" (the English language doesn't seem to have the right word). So i waited until it was definitely run-in (2000km), documented the problem for myself (1/3 throttle eg 60-65kph 4th gear very slight acceleration or 80-85kph ditto in 5th gear with 13T/44T with absolutely everything standard, exhaust pipe completely untouched, despite the bike shop telling me to hacksaw off the end of the header which has a small bulge/restrictor/whatever, nothing done to the airbox, standard australian #50 and #147 jets and mid needle position, problem not particularly dependent on atmospheric temp/pressure, normal fuel).

then I made just one change - I moved the needle clip up 1 (ie dropped needle to a  LEANer position) from 3rd clip to 4th clip counting from bottom).

This single change pretty much completely fixed the problem for me, here in Canberra at an altitude of 600 metres above sea level.

 

John



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Really? Im in goulburn just around the corner and my lbs says my bike needs richening. All ive done is remove snorkel and add staintune. Same jets as you brand new model. While you are readin this - what kind of range are you getting out of a tank mate?

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Hi, I am the guy who ttrfan quoted.

I would add that, I test rode a 2nd hand ttr and also a new demo ttr (but which had the header restrictor removed) before I bought my own new ttr, and they both had a very similar "bog" to mine.

Ideally, I would have liked to also try richening the needle by one clip to assure myself that it then got worse, but I couldn't be bothered, because as I said, leaning it worked for me at my location (only a shadow of the problem remains).

But I would like to point out that if your riding location is near sea level and your area has days of high atmospheric pressure, you might not want to go lean (though I would be surprised if going rich would improve things, all else standard).

In answer to davecambo, my fuel consumption is variable but 22km/liter is easy enough, so a range of 160km to reserve is easy enough (depending on how brim full the tank was to start). By the way, I measured the fuel remaining after hitting reserve once - there was 1.2 liters easily available, then another 0.7 liter with lots of rocking the tank from side to side etc.

I sure would love to hear from anyone who reckons either there is no "bog" as I described, or that there is some other way to get over it with an otherwise standard bike. I met someone round here a while ago who had two ttr250s - they recognised "the flat spot" but didn't particularly care about it (as full throttle acceleration is fine), whereas I found it annoying in traffic and when making small speed changes when cornering on the road.

Incidentally, if someone does want to fiddle with their needle clip position, it might be useful to know that you can get the needle out without undoing the phillips head screw on the throttle rocker spindle which the manual says to undo (on my bike it was very tight and I was scared of stripping the screw head).



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did your first few tanks of fuel suck real bad? cause no way am i getting that good a range (160 before needing reserve) out of mine.

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Best place for carb spares?
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Hi

I'm after the O rings that seal the pumper diaphragm plate (part number 5Y1-14397-00-00).

Can anyone recommend a source for these parts in the U.K.

Cheers



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Fowlers of bristol. Cheap as chips.

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RE: Carb problems
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Since I not' have any starter that works, it is necessary for me to lean on the kick!!! She starts up not. I have ignition there has gasoline,s»Ï8¼ The cutting circuit is OK the faucet of gasoline is ONE filters It to Air is nine.
The healing ones of humidity are empty and clean.
someone will be able to give some measures in turn:
I live wealth, lives has air spring (of slowed down) and strap of the cable of accelerator.

Photo pics






Merci d'avance



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That sounds exactly like the fault I'm having with mine,sometimes it idles too quickly and other times it will cut out. I cleaned out the carb when I bought it but left the slide alone 'cos it seemed to be snapping shut nicely,just goes to show,never assume anything. I'll have it apart tomorrow to have a look,thanks.

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alain fermer la completley vis, puis tournez à 2,25 tours de la position fermée. Si elle fonctionne encore agitée, dépouiller l'completley carb assurez-vous que tous les jets sont propres et vous pouvez voir à travers chaque trou, puis essayez à nouveau. Ces glucides sont sales, exécutez un filtre à carburant

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Carb problem
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Does any one know where I can get A carb kit(replacement seals) or carb Rebuild kit screws jets ect? I have a 55 Plate ttr250 4gy model! Many thanks

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you can get them as individual parts from cmsnl.com , although they are quite expensive hth

Dave

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fowlers of bristol do some parts

Its not too expensive for a new o ring gasket and the little o rings near the pump, which is all i replaced.



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Rob


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Carb Parts
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Hi All, can anyone recomend a uk dealer for carb parts, such as 4GY-14198-01-00 gasket, 4GY-14105-00-00 pilot jet, 4GY-14384-00-00 gasket, 4GY-14940-00-00 diaphragm assembly, or do i have to get them from U.S.A/EURO dealers?? Cheers..



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Try Martin, chief storesman at MotoWard, on 01403 823222

Brian



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Carb bowl full of crud!
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I am not usually surprised by what I find in old TTR parts but this float bowl made me chuckle biggrin

Looks like mud but it must be fine rust particles that have found their way through the filters.

This carb is getting a very thorough clean wink

Float bowl of crud 001.jpg

Float bowl of crud 002.jpg

Float bowl of crud 003.jpg



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My god that's alot of crudd smile

 



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Carb problems
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This is a strange one. I have been experiencing some intermittent carb problems the last few times I've had the bike out. ('93 OE)

After about twenty minutes of normal riding the carb doesn't want to give me anything other than idle or full bore. If I tickle the trottle it bogs and dies. I've  had to ride home a few times full throttle, riding the clutch. I've had the carb apart for a clean as I suspected a blocked jet, but there were no noticable blockages.

The float valve doesn't seem to be stuck, bent or incorrectly assembled either, so I'm absolutely stumped.

I've also checked the tank venting and that fuel was actually flowing, all good.

The symptoms are like flooding but I have no idea how it could be flooding.

Anyone came across this issue before? Any suggestions are welcome.

I had to push it 2.5 miles home yesterday, along railway track ballast and every bit of me aches.no

I'm very tempted to break it, as I'm a bit skint and an expensive repair is out of the question.

I really hope I've missed something simple as this is a nice bike to ride. Please help an aching man with hurty feet and a knackered bike.smile



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Hi Chris - bad luck mate!

It sounds very much like a blocked pilot jet. Does it run better mid-throttle when you give it a bit of choke? If so, that would tend to prove my theory.

The fact that it will run full bore suggests there isn't a fuelling problem. 

I know it may sound daft, but there is a remote possibilty the main jet might have fallen out!

Whatever the situation you will have to pull the carb again sorry!

Brian



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Thanks for the quick response Brian.
I'm going to pull it apart again after dinner.

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Finally got down to searching inside the carb to see if i could find a problem causing the same symptoms with my bike. When I pulled the main jet some of the small holes in item 2 , main nozzle were blocked. I'm suspecting dirt came in after the air filter. I'll get a picture of where, when I find one on the site or service manuals.

 

TTR Carb jet.jpg



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The breather/drain pipes and their NRVs are shown on the right of the picture.

carb fiche.jpg



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That's handy, thanks for the picture.

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That's a good point, forgot about the breathers and ventricles etc. It's in bits now, just need to look at everything in detail.

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BaronGreenback,
I am having much the same issue. I have pulled carb and waiting for parts. I will be eager to see what you found. Please keep us updated!

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I have the carb in bits on the bench, I just haven't had time to give it a proper inspection. I will post the results when I'm done though.

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If you have access to an ultrasonic cleaner, I'd recommend it.  

Lee 



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Well I finally got mine fired up yesterday!

Big delay due to knackered back, maybe from 3 days bent over TTR + pushing FJR about with rather rusty discs.

Back healed, both bikes fired up and TTR sounded smooth. Only run up for an oil warm up, started extremely quickly and idled very smoothly.

SWMBO wanted taken out so no run report yet + weather forecast not brill.

Gordy

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Carb issues
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Hello all. I recently tore down my carb and cleaned it out because it had been sitting for a year and a half. I got it installed and put the bike back together, but when i turn on the pet****, gas comes out of both overflow lines. is it possible that i bent my floats?



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More likely the float needle is sticking down. Have you tried tapping (might need to be quite hard!) the float bowl with the end of a screwdriver whilst the petrol is on to see if it stops the flow? 

Brian



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nope, sounds like a good idea. i will try it as soon as i can work on the bike again.



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Carb problems
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Got it. Sticky float valve was causing it to either flood or run dry. Just been testing the valve with the bowl off and it works again. I suppose it also doesn't help that the lad I bought the bike off had the float hinge upside down.

 

:Edit:

Just took it out to get it dirty.  It's running fine apart from a little bogging when just coming off idle, but I suspect that this is due to the air screw being reset in correctly. I'm going to have a fiddle with it later.



-- Edited by BaronGreenback on Thursday 21st of March 2013 04:41:42 PM

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Well this is strange. Both jets are clean with no blockages. No crud in the float bowl, as it was cleaned recently. The breathers, although didn't have pipes on them, were clean and free of muck.


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Carb help :?
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Hello all. I recently purchased a 1999 ttr 250. The last time i worked on it, i cleaned out the carb. After i assembled the bike and turned the gas on, it would flow out of the overflow tubes. I got to work on the bike again today. I took off my floats and i noticed that the point of my needle valve broke! I took the little bit out and it is still able to seal with a broken tip. I also bent my floats down about 1/16 of an inch so the floats raise higher to make up for the broken needle valve.

how does fuel level in the carb affect the carb's performance? Also, some gas still comes out of the overflow tubes when the bike is off. I think the vibrations from the motor bumps the valve into place and stops the leaking because it won't leak when it's running. Also, I am trying to adjust my fuel screw. I have it set to 2 turns out. When I hit the throttle and the rpm's go back down, the engine pops and sputters back to idle. is it too rich? also, if i blip the throttle from idle, it will either stall or take a second to catch up. is this normal or does something need to be fixed?

also, i'm kind of afraid to ask but is the tail light suppost to function? all mine does is light up with the headlight. it doens't glow brighter when brake is applied. 0313131730.jpg

 

 



-- Edited by yamaha42 on Thursday 28th of March 2013 12:03:28 AM

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RE: Carb issues
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I took the carb apart again and the point of my needle valve broke off.



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Oops

Perhaps that's the reason the gas is leaking. confuse

More expense.

Yuraku



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RE: Carb help :?
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Sounds like you have a case of broken float needle.

If your fuel level is too high or overflowing from the overflow pipe (way too high) then this is your problem. The float MUST be set right or what you describe will happen no doubt.

On the brake light subject it could be a few things.

(1.) Broken, loose or disconnected wire- either the yellow wire under the seat that goes back to the brake light or the black wire, same location.

(2.) The brake light switch broken or loose wire that is located at the brake pedal. I have fixed this before by re-soldering the connections to it.

 



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although these blue TTRs all look much the same to me, your bike is probably a US model
- in particular one without blinkers etc which is not usually road registrable.

I believe these bikes have a taillight yellow wire which goes nowhere.
Also they don't have the switches installed near the brake foot or hand lever.

so have a look - if that is the case, the brake light will never work unless you do an upgrade.

Lowering the float level would make it slightly leaner, all else being equal.

The symptoms you have (leaking while on the stand, ok when riding) are typical of a worn float needle+seat set needing replacement. so why not buy a new one, as it is broken anyway?

But if you really want to do it on the cheap, you MIGHT be able to improve the sealing by carefully polishing the float valve needle to get rid of any little ridges where it contacts the float valve seat.


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Good point about the brake light Brindabella.

I looked at your pro & noticed that you are in New York so I would say that is why your brake light doesn't work. The US models do not have the brake light switch.



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carb pipe work
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Bad luck Rodge but at least you kept going!

Both pipes running down from either side the carb (this includes the short on on the LHS that clips onto the engine breather pipe) should have one-way valves fitted. 

The pipes the other side the T pieces run up to the airbox and are open. Over time dust etc can get in these and fall down onto the one-way valves and can stop them working. Worth checking on anyone's TTR.

Brian



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hi took my ttr green laning today,got on really well for first time out on it and had a great days riding with no drama's untill i went into a riverhmm within a few yards the bike coughed and sputterd then died,depth was enough to cover crank case,just.

tried to start it and fired up straight away but would only idle and touching the throttle only stalled it again but started again as before,so removed airbox cover expecting to find water but none there infact bone dry.

i then checked carb tubes/pipes and all seemed clear,but on one if you blow or suck on the pipe you can stall the engine.

managed to run it on full choke and after about 5mins of driving i was able to turn choke off and all was well again.thepipe in question comes out of the side of carb and in to a T piece,with one pipe going upwards and the other about 2" going downwards,wondering if this needs to be longer or have a one way valve fitted,any help very much appreciated,thanks rodge.



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In addition to what Brain is saying, there is one pipe that runs back to the oil seperator/emmision unit at the airbox. This should have a one-way breather fitted to it also.



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Carb kit.
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Hi.

I have a TTR250 import 1993 model, The carb requires stripping for clean out, I require a service kit in case any seals etc require replacement before its taken apart, Can anyone advise please.



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