A forum for owners of Yamaha TTR250 trail and enduro bikes!

barra8 · Guru

Is their any oversized front rotor options out there?

mingle · Veteran Member

hey guys so i plan on upgrading the front brakes, going to put some sintered pads and stainless braided line on. im wondering if there is any rotor upgrades? 280mm -320mm? can i take a oversized rotor kit from a different bike, say maybe a yz or wr and bolt it to my ttr hub? what do you guys think?

Cubber · Super Guru

Not only that, Jarrah, but the bigger calipers would require a point of fixing higher up the leg also! confuse confuse

I agree with your answer, though.

Perhaps Mingle may consider using a set up from a bike having a larger disk and swap the whole legs, wheel and caliper as a unit. wink

Let us all know how you get on, Mingle. smile

Martyn

barra8 · Guru

Cubber wrote:
Not only that, Jarrah, but the bigger calipers would require a point of fixing higher up the leg also!
I agree with your answer, though.
Perhaps Mingle may consider using a set up from a bike having a larger disk and swap the whole legs, wheel and caliper as a unit.
Let us all know how you get on, Mingle.
Martyn

Yeah i was thinking that too Martyn wink The brackets you get when you buy oversize calipers fit though so why i did'nt mention it wink

He could go down the ''swap the whole fork assembly road'' though? It would be good to know what is required to do this modification as i'm thinking of doing this myself. (Mainly so i get the nice shiny gaurds :)

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Jarrah.

mingle · Veteran Member

I have already swamped to 2000 yz125 front forks. (While keeping the ttr hub) I'm looking for any other bike that might have the same stock ttr rotor pattern. I will fabricate my own caliper relocation bracket. I don't believe the rotor only upgrade will be as pointless as you guys make it out to be. The stock caliper will do just fine. I will upgrade everything But the caliper. ( hose, pads, rotor, relocation bracket, ) but "if" I could confirm a yz rotor would fit the ttr hub then my hunt will be over. Thanks guys

barra8 · Guru

Well it is after all only what your opinion is on the subject but in my opinion a bigger pad surface is needed to call it a brake ''upgrade'' (my opinion)

Since noboby seems to get my point here is an oversize caliper with oversize pads...here

Thats not to say that fitting the wr one won't help though

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Jarrah.

-- Edited by barra8 on Monday 26th of November 2012 11:33:47 AM

barra8 · Guru

mingle wrote:
I don't believe the rotor only upgrade will be as pointless as you guys make it out to be. The stock caliper will do just fine. I will upgrade everything But the caliper. ( hose, pads, rotor, relocation bracket, ) but "if" I could confirm a yz rotor would fit the ttr hub then my hunt will be over. Thanks guys

Okay so you understand....Oversize rotors will have oversize brake pads..Without bigger brake pads the surface the pads grip to eg.rotor will not be any greater...therefore it would be pointless.

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Jarrah.

barra8 · Guru

Buying an oversize master cylinder does have it's benifiets as fluid is pushed through at a greater rate & therefore making stopping a little easier. (Still not much difference in ''actual'' stopping distance but feels better).

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Jarrah.

barra8 · Guru

Well obviously it would be an upgrade from TTR250 calipers to WR but fitment may be the trouble. I would be interested to see what is needed for this mod. eg..brake lines ect. but not for a brake upgrade...more along the lines of a suspension upgrade but brakes slighty upgraded'' would'nt be bad i guess.

Upgrading just the rotor without using the oversize brake pads/master cylinder/calipers just seems like a waste of time & effort in (my opinion) as the fluid will only push the same pressure as standard. I do see how it would help but hardly an upgrade. Cost me $ AU 90.00 for an oversize master cylinder and it would be just the same as changing the size of the rotors (if not better).

To my understanding the yz250f triple tree & forks bolt straight in but it would be good to know for sure.

I am quite happy with my brake set-up as the oversize master cylinder does help a little.

Good luck to mingle

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Jarrah.

-- Edited by barra8 on Monday 26th of November 2012 03:28:24 PM

barra8 · Guru

It is interesting to see the differences between the two bikes - the WR has less "meat" on the hub, and uses less material on the disc rotor too (but with an interesting pattern of cutouts to make it lighter but probably as strong).
........................................................................................................................................................................

The reason they make rotors with cut outs is to dissapate the heat better & in turn helps with stopping power when rotors are hot.

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Jarrah.

-- Edited by barra8 on Monday 26th of November 2012 03:13:55 PM

mingle · Veteran Member

Jarrah, Your talking to a automotive brake mechanic. I know my stuff on brakes, I also came from a mountain biking background, and swaping from a 6 in rotor to a 8 in rotor with No difference in pad size or caliper size, Was night and day. You wont convince me otherwise .I'm not looking for opinions, just and answer to see if a WR or YZ rotor would fit the ttr front hub. If anybody Else has any ideas on rotor bolt patterns please chime in,

brindabella · Senior Member

I can tell you one fact - a 2003 WR250F rotor is no bigger.

The reason I can say that, is that I have one in my garage, so I wheeled it next to the TTR and had a look.
The outer diameter, bolt hole circle diameter, and bolt size *looks* the same (measured roughly with a toy plastic "micrometer").

It is interesting to see the differences between the two bikes - the WR has less "meat" on the hub, and uses less material on the disc rotor too (but with an interesting pattern of cutouts to make it lighter but probably as strong).

By the way, a bigger rotor should theoretically need LESS force at the caliper for the same braking effect, so upgrading the pad size or master cylinder would certainly not be required when you change to a bigger disc [my opinion].

TTRfan · Super Guru

It's a shame that Yamaha used a different brakedisc on the WR250R/X models as, otherwise, the WR250X supermoto disc etc would have been a useful conversion.

Brian

mingle · Veteran Member

brindabella wrote:
I can tell you one fact - a 2003 WR250F rotor is no bigger.

The reason I can say that, is that I have one in my garage, so I wheeled it next to the TTR and had a look.
The outer diameter, bolt hole circle diameter, and bolt size *looks* the same (measured roughly with a toy plastic "micrometer").

It is interesting to see the differences between the two bikes - the WR has less "meat" on the hub, and uses less material on the disc rotor too (but with an interesting pattern of cutouts to make it lighter but probably as strong).

By the way, a bigger rotor should theoretically need LESS force at the caliper for the same braking effect, so upgrading the pad size or master cylinder would certainly not be required when you change to a bigger disc [my opinion].

Thank you brindabella, So a 2003 WR250F rotor will bolt up to the ttr hub? bolt pattern same distance apart?? evileye ( No ghetto fab here)

Shimming the pads may be nessesary to compensate for the thinner rotor. Im sure their are more options with oversized rotors for the 03 WR250F

TDVT · Senior Member

I would think there WOULD be an braking advantage with a larger disc, even with the same pad size, as your friction area is further from the axis. Should be more leverage that way.

brindabella · Senior Member

mingle, I can't guarantee it would bolt up, but it *appears* to be the same dimension, same number of bolts, same diameter bolts (but very different bolt heads - countersunk vs stepped). bolt diameter confirmed by part numbers. The disc may be the same, or even very slightly thinner on the WR (I couldn't really tell) - when I said "less material" I meant that there are more cut outs.

so, as I think you are suggesting, it could be worth searching for a WR alternative and then checking it really does bolt up to your hub.

the WR and TTR may have the same diameter disc, but the total braking is better on the WR, as you might expect.

Jarrah, regarding need (or not) to upgrade pad size and master cylinder - I'm sure one COULD upgrade and it WOULD be better, BUT you can get a huge effect by simply using a larger radius disc, which gives a greater mechanical advantage which will be felt at the lever, and also has a better cooling effect, simply by being larger. It is all a question of best bang for buck, or "horses for courses". For me, I'm happy enough with the standard "soft" braking of the TTR, and I wouldn't want a bigger disc that might be slightly more likely to crunch on a rock.

hopefully mingle will be eventually be able to tell us the practical results.

mingle · Veteran Member

Thank you brindabella for the leg work. lucky me their is a local seller, selling a oversized rotor for a 2001 WR. we will see if they are the same bolt pattern. i will post pictures on my , ''Greeting from California" thread.

BM Steve · Guru

Hi Mingle

Welcome to the forum By the way

You started an interesting post here, can you explain what the difference is between larger and smaller rotors

If I get over enthusiastic with the brake lever I can lock the front wheel easy ? so what's the benifit ?

Cheers

Steve

mingle · Veteran Member

By placing the pad contact area farther from the axis of rotation, you will have a more responsive initial bite, along with less brake input for the same stopping power. By just merely changing to a bigger diameter rotor, you may be able to stop with just 1 or 2 fingers on the lever Vs. the as of now 3 or 4 fingers. Hence making it more comfortable and sustainable for the rider. and BM Steve, I can not get my front to lock, even with my rock climbing/ mechanic locking talons.

mingle · Veteran Member

@ BM Steve: Then that's the main difference, my bike is plated and I travel between 50-70 miles a day on the road. Its confirmed that the bolt pattern and inner diameter is the same on the TTR and WR
EBC 280mm over sized WR rotor up against the TTR hub

Found some goodies using good ol' Craigslist

-- Edited by mingle on Tuesday 27th of November 2012 07:07:44 AM

BM Steve · Guru

mingle wrote:
I can not get my front to lock, even with my rock climbing/ mechanic locking talons.

I mean in the dirt, I don't ride on paved roads much and haven't even tried, I don't ride very fast wink

BM Steve · Guru

that's interesting,

So if you wanted to do this on a standard TTR you would just need a WR disk (What type, model etc. you didn't mention) and a suitable bracket

it would be good if you could provide a parts list for the conversion

Hoses, pads etc...

Thanks

Steve

barra8 · Guru

BM Steve wrote:
that's interesting,
So if you wanted to do this on a standard TTR you would just need a WR disk (What type, model etc. you didn't mention) and a suitable bracket
it would be good if you could provide a parts list for the conversion
Hoses, pads etc...
Thanks
Steve

If your thinking of an upgrade Steve maybe best if you retain the TTR rotor & just buy an oversize master cylinder. It takes the OEM ''soft'' feeling & replaces it with perfectly suited (or too touchy-depending how you set them). This will keep your rotor from hitting rocks as being oversize is not an advantage in the bush. To reep the ''nearly'' full benifiets of the WR rotor you will have to fit this or the WR one anyway. It cost me AU $90.00 but i'm pretty sure it can be bought cheaper. It is the same one my mate has on his YZ40F wink

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Jarrah.

BM Steve · Guru

I think the stoppers are just fine for the dirt but if I ever needed to replace the rotor it's well worth considering especially

since you only need to manufacture an adaptor bracket for the caliper

BM

mingle · Veteran Member

Huge rotor

barra8 · Guru

mingle wrote:
barra8 wrote:
Okay so you understand....Oversize rotors will have oversize brake pads..Without bigger brake pads the surface the pads grip to eg.rotor will not be any greater...therefore it would be pointless.
................
Jarrah.

So I finished today had the bracket welded and... HOLY BATMAN THIS THING STOPS ON A DIME, HUGE UPGRADE! The front forks dive with just one finger pull, feel is very modular and the initial bite is more pronounced. I was getting aggresive so I grabed for 3 finger stop and I could hear the front tire braking traction. Wowzer!
I did not say that it would not be an improvement but this is nothing that fitting a oversize master cylinder won't do. Best bang for buck in my case is an oversize master cylinder but each to their own.
All i am saying is that if you fit an oversize rotor that to reep the full benifiets of this the caliper made for the rotor (as it will have bigger pads & better pressure) & the master cylinder.
To be honest i'm not sure i would like to trust that bracket or have the cops pull me up & say hey whats that ''getto fab'' down at your brake caliper lol.
I'm not against your idea & think it's great that you have done this mod (nearly) yourself. I just think that this is alot of effort for the same result as fitting an oversize master cylinder.
Maybe good for others but i'll stick with my oversize master cylinder
You can upgrade the surface it grabs all day long but the real benifiet will come when all of these components come together
.....................
Jarrah.

-- Edited by barra8 on Friday 30th of November 2012 12:03:04 PM

mingle · Veteran Member

barra8 wrote:
Okay so you understand....Oversize rotors will have oversize brake pads..Without bigger brake pads the surface the pads grip to eg.rotor will not be any greater...therefore it would be pointless.
................
Jarrah.

So I finished today had the bracket welded and... HOLY BATMAN THIS THING STOPS ON A DIME, HUGE UPGRADE! aww The front forks dive with just one finger pull, feel is very modular and the initial bite is more pronounced. I was getting aggresive so I grabed for 3 finger stop and I could hear the front tire braking traction. Wowzer!

BM Steve · Guru

Hey Mingle, Have you ever heard of the Darwin Awards, I think if you don't do something about that bracket you may be a candidate.

I can see the headline:

MAN DIES IN ROAD ACCIDENT AFTER "IMPROVING" HIS BRAKES !

Honestly, that bracket looks like crap, I wouldn't risk my life with something like that

Now you have the spacing right and it works properly you really should get a laser cut stainless steel bracket made up

Really how much is your life worth ? or even just a serious accident

Good luck with it

Steve

barra8 · Guru

BM Steve wrote:
Hey Mingle, Have you ever heard of the Darwin Awards, I think if you don't do something about that bracket you may be a candidate.
I can see the headline:
MAN DIES IN ROAD ACCIDENT AFTER "IMPROVING" HIS BRAKES !
Honestly, that bracket looks like crap, I wouldn't risk my life with something like that
Now you have the spacing right and it works properly you really should get a laser cut stainless steel bracket made up
Really how much is your life worth ? or even just a serious accident
Good luck with it
Steve

Ecactly what i was thinking.....Those welds may hold say 10 ton of weight but.......The OEM bracket is high tensile....by welding it like that you have now made it mild steel where the welds are. I would not trust this with my life or anyone elses personally.

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Jarrah.

mingle · Veteran Member

Hahahaha you guys are funny.

BM Steve · Guru

mingle wrote:
Hahahaha you guys are funny.

I'm glad you got a laugh out of it, I thought you might flip us off biggrin

barra8 · Guru

BM Steve wrote:
mingle wrote:
Hahahaha you guys are funny.
I'm glad you got a laugh out of it, I thought you might flip us off

Yeah i agree Steve & it might not be so funny when it breaks at the welds though maybe we will be laughing biggrin

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Jarrah.

mingle · Veteran Member

oh im definitely flipping you guys off. barra8 has filled my valuable thread with his nonsense opinionated jibber jabber, sounding like a negative nancy, and hater. sooo.. keep your opinions to your self, and stay jealous of my custom fab skills. I appreciate your concerns but the only way a cnc machined plated will be made is if you directly deposit the money in my paypal. untill then the bracket is More than Strong Enough to handle the torque of the caliper. happy stopping my chubs

BM Steve · Guru

mingle wrote:
happy stopping my chubs

LOL, don't be mad Mingle, we love you

By the way, what's a chub ?

Steve the chub

barra8 · Guru

mingle wrote:
oh im definitely flipping you guys off. barra8 has filled my valuable thread with his nonsense opinionated jibber jabber, sounding like a negative nancy, and hater. sooo.. keep your opinions to your self, and stay jealous of my custom fab skills.happy stopping my chubs

I will not be helping you again if this is the repayment i recieve. I have only filled your ''usefull'' thread with ''usefull' info. Maybe that bracket is strong enough for you but monkey see monkey do so atleast these monkeys have been warned. Luck!

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Jarrah.