A forum for owners of Yamaha TTR250 trail and enduro bikes!

Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
The TTR250 FAQ web pages -> TTR250 -> Repairs and maintenance -> stainless steel engine case bolts?
Post Info TOPIC: stainless steel engine case bolts?
barra8


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 932
Date:
stainless steel engine case bolts?
Permalink  
 

Thanks martyn for that info,

                                         Although  maybe you should google ''marine grade'' stainless steel bolts. Check out this one first

  Stainless steel     marine grade stainless steel 

stainless vs zinc plated  

 

This info (below) is from the info in the link you gave above I have made the relevant parts bold  & outlined in blue the most important info.

 ..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Corrosion risks with aluminium and stainless steel in contact

Aluminium and stainless steel together also appears to be a bi-metallic corrosion risk, from the 'nobility' table.
With this combination the affect of relative surface area on corrosion is important.

A large area of 'cathode' relative to 'anode' will accelerate the anodic corrosion. Although aluminium is anodic to stainless steel, large relative surface areas of aluminium to stainless steel can be acceptable, dependant on local conditions.
Stainless steel fasteners in aluminium plates or sheets are normally considered safe, whereas aluminium rivets or bolts holding stainless steel parts together is an unwise combination, as there is a practical risk of corrosion.

An example of the safe use of stainless steel and aluminium together is where stainless steel fasteners and hold down bolts are used to secure aluminium roadway or bridge parapet guards.
Even with no insulation between the metals, there should be little risk of corrosion.

In contrast, in a marine environment, severe localised pitting corrosion to the aluminium treads has been observed where un-insulated stainless steel bolts were used to secure the treads in place.
On the same ladder however, bolts with sound insulating washers did not show any pitting on the surrounding aluminium.

This illustrates the beneficial effect of breaking the corrosion cell by isolating the two 'dissimilar' metals in marginal cases.

 

Discolouration of stainless steel by corrosion products

Staining effects on stainless steels from corrosion products of the coupled metal can also be an issue.
Lead and copper are quite close on the nobility table to stainless steel and so the bimetallic corrosion risks should be small.
Any corrosion product, if washed onto stainless steel, may however result in problems not associated with the bi-metallic effect and so not be predicted from the tables.

Additional care in design should avoid such staining problems.

 ...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 ..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Corrosion risks with galvanised steel and stainless steel in contact

Galvanised steel in contact with stainless steels is not normally considered to be a serious corrosion risk, except possibly in severe (marine type) environments.
In these situations, precautions such as insulating barriers are usually considered adequate to avoid bimetallic corrosion in most practical situations.

 

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

TO vic

Also if you apply a little anti-sieze (unless inside the engine) to the ''marine grade'' stainless steel bolt before fitting there will be no trouble at all and should last as long as the bike itself.

......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Jarrah.

 



 



-- Edited by barra8 on Sunday 2nd of September 2012 05:15:57 PM

__________________

YAMAHA ROCKS!!!!!!

TTR250ACTIVE''BORED'' ADDICT!

Favourite quote: To be old & wise first you must be young & dumb!

My own: Your never too young to learn an old trick! :)

BM Steve


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 691
Date:
Permalink  
 

I Replaced all the phillips head bolts on the controls, the fork bolts, plastic side cover bolts and a few others

with stainless Steel allen head bolts, it cuts down an heaps of tools in your tool kit, especially those pesky Phillips head screws on the controls

used some anti sieze of course, so now only need 4 small sockets and 4 allen head keys to remove most of the bolts of the bike, except all the big stuff of course, speeds things up when doing maintainance

13, 12, 10, 8, 6mm 1/4 drive Sockets and 8, 6, 5, 4mm keys

 

biggrin



-- Edited by BM Steve on Thursday 30th of August 2012 02:00:39 PM

__________________

2004 TTR250 - Highway Dirtbike Hand Guards, 38mm Bar Risers, D606 Front & Rear, Opened up Airbox with Twin Air Filter, Re-jetted Carby, B+B Bash Plate & Frame Guards, DIY 3mm Alloy Tail Tidy, 14/47 Gearing.

 
barra8


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 932
Date:
Permalink  
 

BM Steve wrote:

I Replaced all the phillips head bolts on the controls, the fork bolts, plastic side cover bolts and a few others

with stainless Steel allen head bolts, it cuts down an heaps of tools in your tool kit, especially those pesky Phillips head screws on the controls

used some anti sieze of course, so now only need 4 small sockets and 4 allen head keys to remove most of the bolts of the bike, except all the big stuff of course, speeds things up when doing maintainance

13, 12, 10, 8, 6mm 1/4 drive Sockets and 8, 6, 5, 4mm keys

 

biggrin



-- Edited by BM Steve on Thursday 30th of August 2012 02:00:39 PM

 Good work steve,

                          That's exactly what i did but i used ''marine grade stainless''. Athough i did replace the brake caliper bolts aswell with ''marine grade'' stainless steel .Not that using the normal grade of  stainless steel is bad it just won't last as long.

 Here is some links i found to Marine grade steel bolts

Stainless steel high tensile bolts

Stainless steel high tensile  bolts

Marine grade stainless steel bolts

Marine grade stainless steel bolts

Button head stainless steel bolts

Polished marine grade stainless bolts

 Applications and usefull info ''a must read''

 There are heaps more places and that was only a quick search.

Jarrah.

 


 

 



-- Edited by barra8 on Thursday 30th of August 2012 09:41:10 PM

__________________

YAMAHA ROCKS!!!!!!

TTR250ACTIVE''BORED'' ADDICT!

Favourite quote: To be old & wise first you must be young & dumb!

My own: Your never too young to learn an old trick! :)

vic


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 25
Date:
Permalink  
 

i have been searching for a stainless steel engeinf bolt set. i have lloked a bit on the site and found nothing.

 

so anyone have a lead on this or maybe where to get one thnx



__________________

2001 TTR 250, 2006 XT225
barra8


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 932
Date:
Permalink  
 

I went to a bolt and nuts specific store to buy mine and brough marine grade stainless steel. Cost me about $1.20 a bolt from memory which came to roughly $50.00 at the end.

I have seen alot of online sites also to buy them so if that is what you are looking for let me know.

Jarrah.



__________________

YAMAHA ROCKS!!!!!!

TTR250ACTIVE''BORED'' ADDICT!

Favourite quote: To be old & wise first you must be young & dumb!

My own: Your never too young to learn an old trick! :)

Cubber


Super Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2608
Date:
Permalink  
 

I would advise sticking to zinc plated engine bolts if I were to consider replacements.

Stainless steel and "long term" fixing to aluminium can cause immense problems due to bi-metallic corrosion. cry

CLICKY LINKY THINGY

Being subjected to heat and frequent dowsing in water with attendant cooling causes great problems.

Of course there are precationary measures that can/should be taken.

If you decide to go for stainless fixings then I feel sure that a supplier lik THIS Florida CLICKY would supply

Martyn

 



__________________

You're never too old to learn something stupid

East Budleigh. Devon
barra8


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 932
Date:
Permalink  
 

Good info colin,

                      Although there is a reason why they use ''marine grade '' stainless steel and not zinc plated bolts.

Zinc plated bolts are only coated in zinc and are iron based.

Stainless steel on the other hand is an aluminium based metal.

The reason rust is caused is by the iron in the metal.

The Galvonic corrosion reaction with zinc bolts will be higher because of the iron.

The zinc coating will not last long once it has come in contact to water,air,salt and the iron causes it to rust. see here 

There is a reason why they use different grades to control the level of corrosion. see here for more info

 Also the zinc coated bolts fitted standard to most motorbikes does not come even close to ''Marine'' grade Stainless bolts.

Jarrah.


 

 


 



-- Edited by barra8 on Thursday 30th of August 2012 08:58:12 PM

__________________

YAMAHA ROCKS!!!!!!

TTR250ACTIVE''BORED'' ADDICT!

Favourite quote: To be old & wise first you must be young & dumb!

My own: Your never too young to learn an old trick! :)

colin13846


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink  
 

Galvonic corrosion caused by two dissimiler metals reacting with each other and is accentuated if in a marine type enviroment ie salt water accelerates the process. An example- Alluminiium yacht masts have stainless steel fittings riveted/screwed to them and eaily react/corrode, therefore fixings are coated with something like this  http://tefgel.com.au/ As for motorbikes a good coating of copper slip I am sure would be adequate. 

  



__________________

Colin,

Arnside, UK 

 
Raggis45


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 29
Date:
Permalink  
 

Just a point to bear in mind when using copperslip or any kind of bolt lube - it will reduce the co -efficent of friction between the threads/mating surfaces, therefore to avoid going to the yield point of the threads and strip them (normally the aluminium), it is sensible to reduce the torque amount used. With a lower torque & a bolt lube  the same 'preload' will be applied, as opposed to putting them togther dry & using a higher torque value  

to try to show this point, a 16mm thread, steel male on steel female, put together dry, will require a torque of ~210N/m, but if you apply copperslip, then this drops to ~120N/m.

Applying bolt lube to larger bolts is not a major drama, as long as you are thinking about what you are doing, but it makes a huge difference on smaller threads, as it is easy enough to strip them, even when they are dry.

Not really sure if the torque values given in handbooks, manuals etc are given as 'dry' values?

The dreaded, sinking, feeling in the pit of your stomach, when you realise that you have just stripped a bolt, nut etc, is something a good percentage of bike owners go through at some point in their maintenance careers

Rob



__________________
colin13846


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Date:
Permalink  
 

Rob Good point about copper slip and the effect it has on torque, I don't usually reduce my torque wrench setting etc but maybe I should, guess there is an element of tolerance to some degree.
Where I work the torque figures are calculated with thread lubricant applied.

Incidently, not wishing to alarm, on our high pressure steam systems it was found by our boffins that copper slip could cause stress cracking on fasteners over a period, there was also a concern copper slip could be carsogenic. All the the copper slip was thrown out and we now use a graphite based anti sieze compound, Omega. Consequently there is a large quantity of copper slip in mine and others garages, I love the stuff!

__________________

Colin,

Arnside, UK 

 
barra8


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 932
Date:
Permalink  
 

Good choice,

                  

They will all be 5mm allen key heads for the engine the question is how long they are?  &&&&

 Where the thread starts on them.(not sure if it would mater about where i starts that much) Guess it's so when undoing&tighening it doesn't wear the motor case.

I do have all the bolts here so i could measure all that.

Although you would be better of going to a Bolt&Nut specialist with your bolts and telling ''them'' you want ''marine'' grade stainless steel.

 

                  Any grade of ''marine'' grade will do just ''bear'' in mind some grades are stonger/more rust ressistant than others (see below)

This table is a list of applications matching¾ the suitability of various stainless steel grades for specific purposes.

 These are the grades                                                                                          

Applications and usefull info ''a must read''

 

 

If you want to upgrade the bolts on your throttle control levers/ect heres some usefull info
 

BM Steve wrote:

I Replaced all the phillips head bolts on the controls, the fork bolts, plastic side cover bolts and a few others

with stainless Steel allen head bolts, it cuts down an heaps of tools in your tool kit, especially those pesky Phillips head screws on the controls

used some anti sieze of course, so now only need 4 small sockets and 4 allen head keys to remove most of the bolts of the bike, except all the big stuff of course, speeds things up when doing maintainance

13, 12, 10, 8, 6mm 1/4 drive Sockets and 8, 6, 5, 4mm keys

.............................................................................................................................................................................................

            Jarrah.

 



-- Edited by barra8 on Sunday 2nd of September 2012 11:07:46 AM

__________________

YAMAHA ROCKS!!!!!!

TTR250ACTIVE''BORED'' ADDICT!

Favourite quote: To be old & wise first you must be young & dumb!

My own: Your never too young to learn an old trick! :)

vic


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 25
Date:
Permalink  
 

wow thnx for all the info and links!!! now the project at hand is bolt sizes and lengths.
so basically id like a list to to the whole engine case both sides of exactly how many of each kind i would need.
as in most of 1 of the ttr's r missing and i rather not open up the other not needing to
thnx again all

__________________

2001 TTR 250, 2006 XT225
vic


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 25
Date:
Permalink  
 

i will be going with the marine grade

__________________

2001 TTR 250, 2006 XT225
vic


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 25
Date:
Permalink  
 

see i am lacking most of the bolts so i have none to compare to or measure to see how many of each type and length id need.

__________________

2001 TTR 250, 2006 XT225
BM Steve


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 691
Date:
Permalink  
 

vic wrote:

see i am lacking most of the bolts so i have none to compare to or measure to see how many of each type and length id need.

 What a pain in the arse, you need one of these things, no batteries required, I've had this for 20 years or so, a very usefull tool, great for bolts and measuring depth with the little extention on the end

These type are usefull down to about 1/4 mm

 

IMG_2173_Small.jpg

 

Cheers

smile



-- Edited by BM Steve on Sunday 2nd of September 2012 09:41:43 AM

__________________

2004 TTR250 - Highway Dirtbike Hand Guards, 38mm Bar Risers, D606 Front & Rear, Opened up Airbox with Twin Air Filter, Re-jetted Carby, B+B Bash Plate & Frame Guards, DIY 3mm Alloy Tail Tidy, 14/47 Gearing.

 
TTRfan


Super Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 8565
Date:
Permalink  
 

There is an odd shape bolt on the oil filter cover. Will it be possible to match that one in stainless?

I reckon its a business proposition for Jarrah to put together a kit - or probably three. One for each side case plus one for the crankcases wink

Brian



__________________

Exeter, Devon, UK

http://www.ttr250.com  - The one and only dedicated TTR250 FAQ!  

TIP: For easy viewing bookmark the "Recent Posts" view - http://ttr250.activeboard.com/p/recent/ 
barra8


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 932
Date:
Permalink  
 

To Brian,

If you take your bolts into a bolt&nut specialist (or Marine store?) anything is possible. They can measure ect. and make them up for you.

Would'nt cost much for postage either if you send them to a bolt&nut specialist so there's another option.

I have thought about selling a few items to make things cheap&easy for people in AU but it's only an idea atm. Not sure how good and idea it would be though

.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

To Vic,

          I won't have the time tonight as i have to work tommorrow so when i get time i wil measure them.

.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Jarrah.



__________________

YAMAHA ROCKS!!!!!!

TTR250ACTIVE''BORED'' ADDICT!

Favourite quote: To be old & wise first you must be young & dumb!

My own: Your never too young to learn an old trick! :)

vic


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 25
Date:
Permalink  
 

thnx no rush man when you have time will be fine. much appreciated.

__________________

2001 TTR 250, 2006 XT225
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.
The TTR250 FAQ web pages -> TTR250 -> Repairs and maintenance -> stainless steel engine case bolts?


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse 		Powered by ActiveBoard