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Post Info TOPIC: Powder coating information, preparing frame, powder coating v painting, etc.


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Powder coating information, preparing frame, powder coating v painting, etc.
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Was wondering what opinions/thoughts were out there regarding the pro's & con's of powder v's paint? Cost, preparation required, follow up work when the frame comes back etc. Am undecided about which way to go, so was after people's experiences (good or bad)

Thanks

Rob



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Paint Pro's

Easy to touch-up, easy to find the right color, not hard to remove any excess paint, easier to re-paint, easier to clean, better result if done right.

Paint Con's

Scratches easier, has to have a clear coat (which can fade & flake), can be applied too thick if not sprayed right.

..................................................................................................

Powder-coating Pro's

Re-sale value increases, durable coating, good finish, popular.

Powder-coat Con's

Hard to touch-up, hard to remove any excess, never seen a perfect color match, more preparation to insure the powder-coating stays where it should.

......................................................................................................

The money spent is about the same, maybe a little cheaper for paint.

Maybe I have forgotten to add a few pro's & con's but that's my two cents. twocents.gif

If you do not want to read more you don't have to, just thought that this may help others?

.......................................................................................................................................

First of all I don't claim to be a pro but have sprayed many cars & bikes & think I achieve good if not professional results (or at least I think so)

This is for my TT-R 250 but it will be the same color as yours if blue.

 

................................................................................................................................................................................

Barra's 1999-2012 Motorcycle Paint Reference Chart

 

 

TT-R250 5GFD / 5GFE Team Yamaha Blue/ Frame N1* Deep Purplish Blue Metallic C 0564 (DPBMC)

TT-R250R/C White FRAME N2* Deep Purplish Blue Solid E 0583 (DPBSE)

 

 

Engine* Universal aluminum (High temp) SP127

Swing arm/Forks* Machine Silver Ford 2QTC (CR)

Wheels* Sunlight Silver Mazda 22V

Components* Gloss Black GB400

Clear coat additive* Vibrance Prizmatique pigment DX78

...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................

If you have trouble finding the paint or want to get it a little cheaper you should be able to go to a GOOD automotive paint shop & quote these codes below.

.................................................................................................................................

DUPO5000600 DUPONT 6000 BASECOAT DP 500 ML

OW PURPLE 1

...................................................................................................................................

DUPO5000600 DUPONT 6000 MS BASECOAT DP 500 ML

OW PURPLE

...................................................................................................................................

You will need at least a 1L - 1L 1/2 of clear coat & a liter of primer.

 

 

Last thing, if you use a spray gun the right size nozzle it helps to save on paint. I used a cheap one from eBay & it works good (did need a few spare o-rings for the nozzle). I have a bigger pro gun but it would have wasted too much paint & also too much paint fumes.

 

TYPE OF FEED:GRAVITY

 

NOZZLE 0.8Ml -1mm

Metal pot

CUP SIZE :125ML

 

OPERATING PRESSURE:2.0-3.5BAR

 

PATTERN WIDTH:110-160MM

 

AIR CONSUMPTION:3.5-5.0CFM

 

CARS/////BOATS////WOOD WORK////BEST GUN AND LOW PRESSURE

 

306285_542567662443376_1270098448_n.jpg

 

.....................................................................................................................................................................

 

If your in the US see the colorite.com website for paint.

This is the color.

313767_542551319111677_1017116308_n.jpg

 

540775_542551412445001_1852970648_n.jpg

 

535406_542551439111665_1166165213_n.jpg

 

Bit of dust on it by this stage...

72607_542551429111666_1685225187_n.jpg

 

Of course it would be up to you if you want to powder-coat or paint.

 

 

 

If you do want to paint it though remember....First primer,make sure you give it a light sand then metallic blue base coat, 20 Min's later the solid over the top & finally clear coat after  30 Min's depending on temp.

I would recommend using a high temp paint for the motor. I used the paint in the chart. It works but may blemish like most paint with heat applied. Maybe an extractor/muffler paint would be best if wanting lasting results.

This was my motor with the clear coat additive* Vibrance Prizmatique pigment

533116_542551322445010_73689230_n.jpg

 

535536_542551375778338_324477276_n.jpg

 

69662_542551365778339_779780449_n.jpg

I kinda changed it a little though BTW NO I didn't spray the spark plug cap it was like that when I bought it lol (It's since been removed).

482529_542551382445004_680318281_n.jpg

 

 

 

The frame was not too bad (pic below) so all that was needed was a good sand back. The two pack primer I used sticks like glue & is so good for all those imperfections. If painting try to get everything right first. If you get all your edges nicely feather-edged first it makes a whole lot of difference.

 

 

Painting preparation:

600-800 grit sandpaper

Mineral turps or wax & grease remover for oily surfaces.

......................................................................................................

This was it after sanding back & primer coating..

3927_489644584402351_1660598560_n.jpg

 

I thought I would upload the different coats because when I did this I thought for sure that the color was wrong.

The reason is that the first coat of * Deep Purplish Blue Metallic C 0564 (DPBMC) 5815 looks too blue & also too metallic....

 

318983_491249200908556_148073792_n.jpg

 

As you can see it looks wrong but wait.....

This is the Deep Purplish Blue Solid E 0583 (DPBSE) 5829 coat that makes it look nearly right.

 

486250_491263924240417_1046150109_n.jpg

 

Then finally the UPOL clear coat which did a good job. Just to be clear, my favorite clear coat is Dee Beer but this was harder to get hold of & more $$$$ .

 

542729_491271004239709_2068275819_n.jpg

 

 

...............................................................................

The motor I used a dentist drill (like a Dremel but better) with sanding disc's but if your fussy or don't want to spend a lot of time,get it bead/soda blasted. Just remember to get ALL oil off the surface & take your time. Maybe best not to use clear coat for the engine unless it's a high temp clear. Even then it will blemish but that's always the story no matter what you do.

 

 

Make sure you don't blast your magneto wires or this will cause trouble. A bit of water won't hurt as long as there is no muck in it & you give it a good oil change afterward.

I would none the less be making sure that it's sealed well enough so no paint etc gets in. & put a blocked pipe on your oil breather (at the head cover from reading posts on here)

I put a piece of garden hose around my magneto wires after cutting it in the center. Then wrapped with electrical tape. I also plugged the intake & exhaust ports...

 

487192_542566802443462_775281163_n.jpg

 

The rotor cap you see removed was so I could spray it black but it was there when cleaning/sanding etc. It also has packing foam in it ''just to be sure''.

 

 

 

 

When painting it pays to start with all those corners & hard to get to places first. This ensures a good coat on the edges & no missed spots.

Be sure to put a light ''tack'' coat on first,then Min's or so later give a good coat (longer for cold climates 30-40 Min's). You can use three coats but I like to do it in two. I would recommend three thin coats for anyone that is not used to spray painting.

 

When sanding make sure you use a sanding block for flat surfaces & a soft pad for contours etc.

 

 

Never try to get a full coat in the first coat. Always build it up slowly until it goes nice & glossy. If it's not as glossy as you want.....don't worry the clear coat will sort that out.

Note:It will not be ''super'' clear or glossy until dry.

 

With clear coat be VERY careful not to put too much on at once. Especially on UN-level surfaces or it will run or sag! Because it is hard to see without really good light it is best to apply a light ''tack'' coat & do another 1-2 coats in Min's or so.

 

The two-pack primer I describe (IE. UPOL) on the other hand you can afford to be a little more generous but don't go overboard or it will run or sag also. Always sand primer lightly before painting so as not to leave a rough surface. If your primer is going on dry & doesn't feel smooth use more thinners.

 

Any runs that you may encounter can be carefully sanded with medium-fine sandpaper & buffed out. Search YouTube for ideas.

 

Always stick to the recommended hardener Vs paint/clear & results should speak for themselves .

 

 

 

Good luck all ;)



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RE: Frames - Powder Coating V's Paint Spraying
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You certainly got some excellent results Jarrah!

The problem I have when painting is in the preparation. The rear subframe in particular is an absolute PITA to get rust free and is what puts me off painting.

The frame I am using in my current project was powder coated. All I had to do as strip off all the parts and give it a good power wash. The powder coaters took care of the rust by shot blasting and then immediately spraying the frame with a zinc chromate etch primer to help prevent corrosion. The powder coating process follows and what came back was a very nice looking frame with an excellent and very durable finish.

In drier climates maybe rust isn't such an issue?

Brian



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Thanks Brian

To be fair, the only frame that I have seen even come close to matching is Brian's frame that he got powder-coated recently.

On the rust issue, the frame shown above was bought from Vic,Australia, so it was vertually rust-free. I do however, like to use Galmet Ironize. It is a rust convertor that turns the rust into a stable base coat for painting, also turns the rust black. Great stuff



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Rear frame awaiting attention.jpg

You are dead right Jarrah. It all depends on what condition your frame is in. If it's clean and relatively rust free as yours was then spray painting is a good option.

However, if your frame looks like the one in my pic then I reckon shot blasting is the sensible option. The rust is worse than it looks in the pic I promise.

I wasn't able to find a match for the Yamaha purple at the powder coaters so chose black for my OE project bike and I think it looks good against the chrome, stainless and ally bling w

Side views 001.jpg

Black is an acceptable alternative for the metallic blue on later TTRs as Mr Yamaha used black frames on the later Australasian TTRs - see below. 

yamaha_ttr250_tt250r_250cc_9_nbsp_2011_19445042.jpg



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thanks for the feedback, good info & photos, looks like both options have given good results.

have to say, was thinking about going down the black frame route, as the blue is quite difficult to match from powder 'colour charts', but with the paint code info above, will make some enquiries
My frame is rusty, so blasting would be the best option, however, was possibly thinking about UHP (ultra high pressure) jet washing to remove the existing paint, as I can get access to this type of kit - this process removes old paint, rust etc then I don't have to worry about blast material turning up in all sorts of places.

Rob





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Powder coating information, preparing frame, powder coating v painting, etc.
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HI all - I know this subject has been covered many times but does any know what the RAL code is for the standard purple frame colour? am going to powdercoat the frame and the guys who are going to do the job have give me a colour chart, like what you get for dulux!

If not will just go for black or anthracite - any help appreciated.

Thanks Steve



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Hi Steve

I've been through this one! Couldn't find a colour that matched so went for black.

If anyone else has found a good match then please share wink

Make sure all your rear subframe tail light tabs and the exhaust mounting are good as now is the chance to get any frame repairs done. Also check the footpeg mountings are good and that, in particular, the LH mount isn't cracked - difficult to see sometimes.

Brian



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Yamaha 0206 Purplish White Solid #1 (PWS1)

  • SKU # : 5450
  • Vendor : ColorRite
  • Manufacturer : Yamaha
  • Manufacturer Code : 0206

 Hope that helps?

Jarrah



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I think SKU is Stock Keeping Unit.

I got a RAL colour chart but can't find anything near the purple frame colour in it and it's the RAL number the powder coaters need.

Brian



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I'm thinking of doing the frame on the OE next spring as I need the bike for winter commuting, I've had a look through the forum but haven't seen any that have had the frame done in black gloss. Not sure how it would contrast with the white tank and panels and purple wheels. Any pics guys.

John

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I restored an OE and had the frame powder coated in gloss black and it looked real good - see resto thread here.

Side views 001.jpg

However, I updated the TTR using blue panels but I reckon it would have looked as good, if not better, with the white tank and panels.

I am sure I saw some pics of one somewheres but just can't recall where - may have been on eBay a while back confuse

Brian



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That looks really lush Brian, not sure I will get mine close to your standard though. The wheels are pitted also so may have to get the coated also. Better start saving lol

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Powder coating the wheels is expensive as you have to sacrifice the bearings and seals before they go in for treatment as it gets hot in the powder coating process and the grease melts and can spoil the finish - I know from experience - see below:

/download.spark?ID=1069881&aBID=139305

However, the process can transform an otherwise tatty pair of wheels. The last pair I had done cost me £96 no

If you decide to do it. make sure the spokes are 100% before the process.

Brian



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Powder coating a frame - checking and preparing the frame
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I'm thinking of stripping my TTR down and getting the frame powder coated, while it was all stripped back I was thinking of welding some material into the sidestand lug and re-drilling it out to remove the current slop.

What I was wondering was which things need masking off before coating?  I'm thinking that general threaded holes I can just chase out afterwards, but what other areas or faces are best left uncoated?



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Hi Simon

Putting a spot of weld on the stand lug is an excellent idea!

If you take your frame to ICS at Cullompton for powder coating then (a) they know to mask the frame number, (b) they put special collars in the headstock so the steering head races don't get sand blasted and damaged, and (c) they put silicone plugs in all the threaded holes to protect them. 

Before I take the frame for powder coating, I pressure wash it to within an inch of its life and check thoroughly for any cracks in the usual places such as LH footpeg mount and the welds were the rear subframe meets the main frame.

If you have any worries about rust in the rear subframe upper loop then ask ICS to give you a bell after blasting and before coating so that you can inspect the frame and check any suspect areas with a toffee hammer or similar.

The only place I mask is the rear suspension linkage mounting. 

If you decide to go ahead then I have a frame here that has just been done so that you can see the colour plus I can lend you the bolt and collar to mask the suspension mount.

Brian



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So I can leave the headstock races in place?



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Yes biggrin



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I realise that there is a growing number of owners looking to do frame-up restorations so here is my two penn'orth regarding prepping a frame for the powder coaters.

The firm doing your frame should put some heatproof poly plugs in all the thread holes and will also have a way of covering the steering bearing races so that they don't get damaged by shot blasting. The firm I use will also mask the frame number on the steering head so that it doesn't get blasted into a blank as happened on my first attempt no 

OK, so what needs to be done?

Firstly, make absolutely sure you have taken off all the rubber grommets, the chain tensioner, stickers and power wash the frame to within an inch of its life!

From experience of various frames these are the points to check for cracks:

20160303_124600.jpg

20160303_124910.jpg

20160303_125340.jpg

20160303_125125a.jpg

 

Take the opportunity to help reduce stand floppiness by filling the worn area on the frame with weld and grinding back flat.

20160303_125201.jpg

 

There are some areas on the rear of the frame that can almost rust through on older TTRs so check these thoroughly. Perhaps see if you can cause a dent with a light ball pein hammer. If you find a suspect area you need to cut the frame, insert some well-fitting tube for strength and weld it up.  Better to do it now rather than have a nicely powder coated frame with rust holes. The shot blasting quickly shows up problems so an alternative is to ask the powder coaters if you can check the frame after shot blasting and before coating.

20160303_124806.jpg

 

Also check that the tail loop is approx. at the right angle. If the TTR has been looped at some stage it may be bent up. Simple to bend back down with a long bit of wood and the help of a mate.

20160303_125502.jpg

 

Check the number plate holder lugs are all in place and straight. If not, fix before powder coating.

20160303_164331.jpg

 

If a previous owner has used the TTR offroad without fitting a sump guard then the rails might be damaged. A light dent can usually be sorted by the use of heat and a hammer plus filling any remaining indentation with weld and filing back to the correct shape. The photo below is of one of my scrap frames and shows quite extreme damage.

20160303_133731.jpg

 

I have always used a sump guard so my frame rails were fine.

20160303_125140.jpg

 

Here is another photo from my scrap frame showing how the subframe rails had filled with dirt and had rusted through.

20160303_133752.jpg

 

Finally, it is worth protecting the internal faces of the linkage arm mounting. It is very difficult to clean off the weld if it gets in the holes and on the internal faces no

20160303_160019.jpg

 

A simple nut and bolt holding a collar in place is all that is needed.

20160303_160210.jpg

 

So now you have a frame ready to take for powder coating biggrin

20160303_164347.jpg



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I have just stripped an old OE with the intention of blasting & then powder coating.

Over the last 2 weeks I have been tormented with colour choice as I see that the "purple" is so very hard to match, either powder or regular paint.

I see Brian has put a lot of research & work into this (and many other topics!)- I'm off to see the powder coater early next week, but came across this link

http://www.powder-coatings.co.uk/powder-coating-colours/bs4800-colour-chart/

Brian/anyone- has anyone got near the original colour when powder coating?

If not- I am considering going a different colour..but this raises a new set of challenges- the wheels (from Purple>Silver)..which I can organise, BUT...if I change the seat colour & gaiters...STEVE- can you help..I need Red Gaitors & a Red seat..similar set up to this one...which I think is rather sexy!...did anyone own up to owning this bike?

 TTR 250 1993 2.jpg

Sorry I can't resist putting up Mossproofs work of art!(but I fear the rebuild would be over my budget)

bandg 001.JPG

SO the questions are:

1. Has anyone successfully powdercoated an old OE the purple colour (Brian I suspect will know)

2. Are there any colours that would suit?- I love the jps look!!!- but don't want to paint the plastics

3. Can Steve get Red Seat/Gators...if not, where can I get a red seat cover/gators from

 



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Hi Rod

I only had access to the RAL colour chart and couldn't find anything close enough to either of the OE purples. You seem to have tapped other sources of powder coat colours so have a better chance.

But, to be honest, gloss black or anthracite did it for me in preference to the purple anyways.

Red gaiters here - https://totallyttrs.com/epages/699105d9-e4cc-4b32-b236-84e72cd67f84.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/699105d9-e4cc-4b32-b236-84e72cd67f84/Products/TTR-0285

I don't know if Mr Yamaha still sells red seats and, if not, you would need to have a cover made I guess.

Here is a Raid photo along similar lines - note black frame and seat. It looked much better in real life. Nick, the rider, was a very big man and made the Raid look small...

Nick on Raid.jpg



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Brian- again that choice of colour looks soooo cool & retro- yet with the reliability of the TTR! & a RAID...I hadn't seen that on my search of this font of knowledge. you are teasing me!!
..this has to be the best site for specific bike information..WITHOUT A DOUBT.

I will visit the powder coaters & see what colours they have- the nearest (based on my PC screen) was 22 D 45 under the BS4800 Colour Chart; while under the RAL selection I spotted RAL 5019- but that is subject to my screen & whether they have got it.

I too love the black; but feel this is better suited to the Raid with the turquoise tank & gold rims...unless I do a "mossproof"...God that is a sexy bike!

I know a seat coverer..I will ask him costs- it has to have the Yamaha logo on it though

so...Gaiters sorted
does anyone know about
1.a red seat(cover)- standard, before I price up custom please?
2...oh & decals...the Yamaha chequeres, but not for the tank...more like the RAID
3.any other colours or has anyone got a good match with powder coating please?



-- Edited by RodYorkttr on Sunday 6th of August 2017 01:03:19 AM

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Here's a red seat cover wink

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331947631823
 
 
From the states though so might be a bit in freight. I really like the red and white. Especially with the yamaha speed block red/white look. evileye


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Stop drooling over my bike Rod, you'll short out your keyboardbiggrin

Red/white was my other option, but I agree the black bike does look "sick" as I believe the young people say!

How about gold frame with gold rims and turquoise tank? I like the black frame with white/gold too though. Decisions decisions!

David Lambeth might provide a red seat cover, although the OE TTR is the only one he doesn't list. Just found this:

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tailored-Seat-Cover-to-fit-Yamaha-TTR-250-TTR-500-1993-to1999-Choice-of-Colours-/302400234657?hash=item46687564a1:g:6mgAAOSwz-5Zf1VL

David Alexander has stopped his anodizing service unfortunately, but his number is still in use so he might respond to begging if your rims want doing. He's just laced a pair of SM Pro gold rims up for me which look real nice too, but 95 quid each plus building might be over budget? 



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Sorry for the delay Rod

Yes red gaiters are in stock on the shelf

I must admit I love both the black and the white bikes sooooo nicesmile

Interesting the link to the seat covers, he has made me some of the blue and black ones, just have not had the time to put them in the shop, will get onto it tonight.

Steve



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They both look great. The red and white would be easier if you already have the white plastics. Love that retro look.
Any auto upholsterer should be able to knock up a seat cover. Fork boots are easy. Add some stickers and you are done.

If you got a black seat cover it goes with purple, red or black if you change your mind.

Purple rims would be a bit harder. Anyone powder coated these, or just get another set??

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3 options with the rims: Powder coating - Brian has done some and they look nice. Minor issues around the spokes if they're done laced up if you then need to adjust the spokes. On my black bike (see above) I had the rims reanodized from purple to gold and they came out really well. Doesn't work so well if there's any powdery corrosion. Finally, on my 325 I was going to reanodize, but the rims were quite corroded under the rim tape area so I bought some SM Pro gold rims and had these laced up to my original hubs. They were £95 each, so the most expensive option, but I think more hard wearing than powder coating, and cheaper than importing a pair of silver (Y2K/Bluey) wheels from Aus or the US, which appear to be the only places with a ready supply of used wheels.

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Hi rod

I had a red seat cover made up for my ttr a few years ago by a company called dis-covers they were on eBay but seemed to have dis-appeared off there now. It was very good quality. Unfortunately I have not any pics to hand with photo bucket been down!

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domski1 wrote:

Hi rod

I had a red seat cover made up for my ttr a few years ago by a company called dis-covers they were on eBay but seemed to have dis-appeared off there now. It was very good quality. Unfortunately I have not any pics to hand with photo bucket been down!


                             $_1.JPG 

Apparently the firm is on holiday until 15-Aug, CLICKY

Dis covers' telephone number is 07436 581832.

Martyn



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This was my ttr with the red seat cover



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Thank you everyone for your help...I will be exploring all avenues kindly suggested!
A plan is definitely coming together but not in a Brian "smooth operator" way-
Its more like a Northern version of that 80's series "the A team"!!
I have a prolapsed disc (back injury)- so things may be going a little slowly until after end August when I find out about the possibility of an operation.
(folks..look after your backs!)



-- Edited by RodYorkttr on Thursday 10th of August 2017 02:02:42 AM

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www.aliexpress.com/item/Motorcycle-whole-Complete-Graphic-Kit-Dirt-Bike-Sticker-Decal-For-TTR250-TTR-250-TT-R-Raid/32812028973.html , have seen these decals but have never used the company

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RE: Powder coating information, preparing frame, powder coating v painting, etc.
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Thanks to Rod for advice on the details for a purple frame!  He said "The code for purple is 22 D 45 under the BS4800 Colour Chart-  in my opinion;it was a really good match, but confirm yourself first."

PS I have merged the powder coating threads into this one so that the information is (hopefully) easier to find.

 



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