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Post Info TOPIC: Digital speedo issues - trouble shooting, repairs and alternatives!


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Speedo inop
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Mine stopped working a few weeks ago - it was the three tab washer. Works fine now I have replaced it - Brian sells aftermarket replacement washers.



-- Edited by Dave on Sunday 5th of February 2012 08:09:13 PM

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Hello 

Recently riding back from dartmoor my speedo stopped working disbelief

It like judders just below 10mph but dosn't move at all.

What should i go for first the cable? or speedo drive?

Any ideas where to get any of these?

Any help would be great  smile

Thanks Dan



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Check that the outer cable isn't damaged.
Undo the cable at the wheel end and see that the inner cable is in one piece.
If not then that's your answer.

If it seems in one piece then replace at the wheel and disconnect cable at speedo end.
Rotate the wheel and make sure that the inner is turning at the speedo head end.
If it does then the wheel drive and cable are OK and the speedo needs looking at.
If it doesn't then it's probably the drive that's the problam so it's wheel out and dismantle.
Maybe the washer and lack of thickness, wear, etc.

Luckily, it's not rocket science - unlike the sprocket drive sender magnetic rotor thingumyjig!

Martyn

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My money is on the three tab washer in the axle drive being knackered!

Brian



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Thanks for response, i will have a look tomorrow morning before work
Yeah at least it isn't the electrical one :/

Any ideas on where to get any parts?
I have tried Ebay, but found nothing...

Thanks
Dan

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Hello

I have done the testing:

- The cable looks fine at both ends and turns manually
- When connected at the wheel end and disconnected at the speedo end and you turn the wheel, the cable doesn't turn at the speedo.

I guess this is a fault in the speedo drive?
Or the washers? confuse

Not knowing alot about either hmm, any susgestions? 

Thanks smile

Dan



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Thanks Dave i will look into it if this is the cause
Dan

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dan-reeves wrote:

Hello

I have done the testing:

- The cable looks fine at both ends and turns manually
- When connected at the wheel end and disconnected at the speedo end and you turn the wheel, the cable doesn't turn at the speedo.

I guess this is a fault in the speedo drive?
Or the washers? confuse

Not knowing alot about either hmm, any susgestions? 

Thanks smile

Dan


I think I am going to be proved right - it's the washer cry

Only way to check is to slip out the axle and you have immediate access to look inside the gear unit.

Brian



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Ok i will give this a go tomorrow,

what am i looking for exactly?confuse Do you have any photos so i can compare?

How much are the washers?

Thanks alot for your help 

Dan



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Look for any damage to the worm gears but I expect you will find that the three tab washer is damaged. The only pic I can find is copied below. Look for damage to the washer where the green arrows are pointing.

I keep some stainless steel versions of the washer in stock which are much stronger than the originals but won't fix the problem if the worm gears are loose or damaged - or if there is grit or some other foreign body jamming up the works.

They are a "last resort" solution and can't be guaranteed. They are however worth a try as a new drive is about £140 retail.

Have a look and PM or email me if you would like to try a s/s washer.

Brian

 

Speedo drive.jpg



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Brilliant, i will have a look tomorrow and let you no, possibly take a couple of pictures to see what you think.
Thanks for your help
Dan


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Here are the photos i took today... sorry for the poor quality blankstare



-- Edited by dan-reeves on Tuesday 7th of February 2012 09:42:57 PM

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Right i have removed front wheel and taken out speedo drive, the odd thing is every thing looks ok hmm 

There is some play where the 3 tab washer interlocks with turning worm, but i cannot see why this would be a problem...

Also when i rode it just now the mileage doesn't increase as before i took it of the mileage still worked confuse

Hopefully someone has answers biggrin

Will post some pictures up in a moment

Thanks

Dan



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Difficult to see from the pics but it doesn't take much damage for the 3 tab washer to slip on its mounting.

You said:

- The cable looks fine at both ends and turns manually 
- When connected at the wheel end and disconnected at the speedo end and you turn the wheel, the cable doesn't turn at the speedo.

in which case the fault has got to be in the drive unit.

If you turn the worm gear that holds the washer does that turn the inner cable? Perhaps it's easier to stick a small screwdriver in where the cable fits and see what happens. 

I am still thinking the fault is with the washer but willing to be corrected smile



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When i turn the wheel (in your picture above) the other wheel spins so i don't think it could be the worm gears,
I suppose the only thing left to give a go would be the 3 tab washer...

I will pm you for a price.
Thanks
Dan

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Replacement Speedo Cable
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I've noticed that the bracket that mounts the speedo cable to the fork leg has worn through the outer casing and is likely to cause damage to the inner shortly.

Does anyone know whether any other replacement cables are available?  I've seen a few on ebay, but not specific to the TTR and the Yam part seems a bit pricey to me!



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If the outer cable is not broken through to the inner then a temporary repair can be made by using a bit of see through plastic piping (petrol pipe) and splitting it along its length to cable tie to the speedo cable before clamping it back to the fork leg. wink

Other than that you need a new cable - the cable from a DT125LC Mk3 is a cheaper substitute.

Martyn



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Thanks Martyn,

It has gone through to the inner so I've just found one via Yambits for £6.50!

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RE: Speedo accuracy
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My electronic speedo is reading 15kph fast(at 50 kph road speed it says 65kph) .
Do I need to find the original sprocket size and change it,Or is it the sensor thingy?
Ive got the bike for road use, road gering will be fine.
Ive tried to count the the teeth (Rear Sprocket) 52 t or about 260mm Dia


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If you go back to standard gearing then the speedo should be more accurate.

For anyone running non-standard gearing, digital speedos can be corrected to read accurately using the Speedo DRD - see http://www.ttr250.com/TTR_extras/index#SpeedoDRD

Brian



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Thanks Brian,I will look into the Speedo DRD-it looks like the way to go.
Don

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Speedo drive
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I'm planning on replacing the TTR's electronic speedo for an analog job. I'd heard that the DTR125's speedo drive would fit the TTR's front spindle with no mods. Anyone done this or know if it's actually possible?



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Improving waterproofing for the digital speedo sender?
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Has anyone thought of a way to improve moisture resistence of the digital sender (Hall sensor)?

See www.ttr250.com/#More_speedo_information. My magnet is fine but my digital sender unit has died. I do a lot of water crossings and sure enough, the speedo died after a moderate crossing (dumb design to have vulnerable electrics so low in a trail bike! No wonder they went to a manual speedo for the Y2K - post 2000 - models!). I was lucky enough to find a second-hand replacement sender (which I hope is OK), and have also bought a new rear seal (which was not expensive; factory part 93106-15034 or Y110822A).

Before I fit this, should I smear the seal with grease and maybe dip the sensor in epoxy resin glue or a thin layer of RTV silicone? It seems silly to refit everything only to have the replacement die as well if I can improve the waterproofing. But I don't want to stuff up the sender either. Ideas please!

In_deep_water.JPG



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Hi there and welcome to the forum!

It is true that it is moisture that usually kills the sender units but this usually takes a decade or so to happen.

The guy that does our sender unit repairs says the moisture makes its way down the wires to the Hall sensor so its the connector you want to look at waterproofing.

Brian

PS Nice pic by the way - we like pics on here  biggrinbiggrin



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I haven't fitted an analogue speedo to a white TTR myself but know a number of people who have.

Where they have used a DT125 gear unit, I believe there may be a slight issue as the output to the cable is straight whereas it is canted outwards slightly on the TTR. This may require a bit of "adjustment" but do-able.

Best to buy a TTR gear unit if you can.

Here is a pic of Andy's (sells the Motad silencers, top shock bearing repair kits, etc.) fitted :-

AL-S_speedo_fitted.jpg



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Thanks, that's good to know.

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RE: Improving waterproofing for the digital speedo sender?
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This may not help all that much but this stuff pushes water out instead of drawing it in ..... Morey's Bigfoot EP 2 Grease. It is a waterproof lithium based high temp grease that exeeds Tiikens standards by 75 pounds load test wink

Of course fitting the 1999-2012 cable speedo would be the best way to go but yeah...

.............

Jarrah.



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Thanks guys - I think both suggestions are good. Some RTV around the top of the sensor (where the wire goes in and the connector above) and some grease in behind the magnet and against the seal is the way to go if sticking with stock. Maybe also some RTV around the front seal too for good measure. My bike is low in kms for its age, but solely used off road so does receive the accellerated wear test! The rivers in New Zealand are very braided so there is an aweful lot of multiple crossings....



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Remember to put some silicone grease in the connector block where the sensor wiring joins the main loom. As Brian says, water will find its way down inside the wiring between the copper and the plastic sheath.

Giles

 



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digital speedo conversion
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Hi all. the speedo on my blue ttr stopped working the other week. so I bought the new stainless tab washer, which worked for a bit, then packed up again. So now I am looking at a vaportec digital speedo or simmilar. So have any of you had any experiance with these or fitted one to your ttr ? cant be doing without speedo, will end up getting myself into trouble no, thanks Adrian



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I bought a white TTR with a Vapor speedo and it worked just fine. However, it is nowhere near as nice as having the original speedo working!

The stainless steel tab washers are usually a reliable fix if the speedo cable is lubed and spins freely and there is no grit or dirt in the drive unit's worm gears and the gears aren't damaged. Did the inside of the tab washer round out or jump the drive? Happy to post you a replacement to try if you want.

New speedo gear units for the blue TTRs aren't cheap but can work out to cost not a great deal more than a new Vapor and certainly easier to fit wink

Cheers

Brian



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Will strip it down again tomorrow evening, & have another look. also need.to fit the new silencer, thanks Brian &Andy. and I do like original speedo so would prefer to keep again it, but if the drive unit bit is ###### will Adrian have to see £ for £.

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noeyedear wrote:

Will strip it down again tomorrow evening, & have another look. also need.to fit the new silencer, thanks Brian &Andy. and I do like original speedo so would prefer to keep again it, but if the drive unit bit is ###### will Adrian have to see £ for £.


 Have a look at what's gone wrong in the drive first Adrian but, if you think you need a new gear unit, I am sure I can cut you a good deal bearing in mind all those other goodies you have your eyes on such as Symtec heated grips, shorty header, frame guards etc wink

Brian



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RE: Improving waterproofing for the digital speedo sender?
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Hi Giles

I fitted everything in the weekend and the speedo works again. The old rear gasket was worn, so well worth replacing that. Thanks for making it very clear about sealing the wires at the outside connector. Yes, I will do that before using. At least it is on the outside so easy to get at.



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RE: digital speedo conversion
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Ok have it all apart again, and all turns freely. speedo cable all greased up and turns freely. Have noticed the three tabs inside the hub have small amounts missing and a bit of a groove. any ideas on maybe filling with chemical metal ??

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noeyedear wrote:

Ok have it all apart again, and all turns freely. speedo cable all greased up and turns freely. Have noticed the three tabs inside the hub have small amounts missing and a bit of a groove. any ideas on maybe filling with chemical metal ??


Any chance of putting up a good quality pic showing the hub damage please? 

Brian



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Improving waterproofing for the digital speedo sender?
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A little bit off topic but I repaired mine a while back (Mechanical One) and just packed the space with Moly grease, it all seems fine and no water present when I had the wheel off a month or so ago, the grease seems to keep the water at bay fairly well.



-- Edited by BM Steve on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 08:40:05 AM

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RE: digital speedo conversion
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I will get my teenager on the case and see if i we can post later

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noeyedear wrote:

Hi all. the speedo on my blue ttr stopped working the other week. so I bought the new stainless tab washer, which worked for a bit, then packed up again. So now I am looking at a vaportec digital speedo or simmilar. So have any of you had any experiance with these or fitted one to your ttr ? cant be doing without speedo, will end up getting myself into trouble no, thanks Adrian


I have a Trail Tech Vector on my TTR, quite happy with it.

Easy to install as well, see this thread:  http://ttr250.activeboard.com/t50132515/making-my-us-ttr-street-legal/



-- Edited by TDVT on Wednesday 19th of December 2012 08:33:28 PM

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IMG_0311.JPG

you can see the chip in the tab. all 3n are the same. any ideas ?

Adrian



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You can have it alloy welded or try to use a metal repair such as  Kneed it works good but there are also more metal repair options available.

.................................

Jarrah.



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Have gone with squaring the tabs off with a file. only a little shorter than original. have found nothing wrong with drive gears, the only thing
I can see.is a very worn bottom washer, that must of let the gear lift and jam.

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Is there a way to test the digital sender?
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The magnets can crack and not obviously break up so its worth checking it first if not already done. The magnet is a strange one with each quarter being N S N S as you go around its circumference. 

As the magnet spins around it produces on/off voltage spikes (of about 5V if I recall correctly) in the Hall sensor in the sender unit which drives the digital speedo.

If the magnet cracks then additional N and S poles are created causing total confusion in the sender unit no

If you are able to test for these voltage spikes then that would determine if the Hall sensor has packed up. It can fail as, after many years, moisture slowly works down the cables and kills the sensor.

Sorry if none of that makes sense! 

If stuck maybe borrow a sensor to try?

Brian



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Had a run up the drive this weekend and noticed the speedo didnt pick up.

Read a few posts and it appears the sender could be at fault, is there a way to test this one at home before sending off for a refurb?



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hmm, Youtube is my friend! off to try something

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Speedo Drive
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I do NOT claim to be an expert on this subject but let me see if i can help.

1. My worm drive only goes one way. Is it supposed to be like that is was that the cause of the problem (ie I damaged the flat faces by rolling backward when the worm gear was seized ?)

1.My worm gear turns both ways. Maybe you don't have the washer fitted to both sides of the pinion/drive gear? This would cause it to lock up when going backward (obviously by pushing). Or your worm gear or speedo drive gear is 'stuffed'.

2. Is it in fact a good idea to have a stiffer stainless steel drive disc because I am thinking that next time it will continue turning and destroy the more expensive clogged up componets eg the brass worm drive ?

2. That is a good point & a good question. I'm not sure what to say here so I'll leave that up to you. My opinion would be that fitting a stronger lock washer may be detrimental to the worm gear if it got stuck. On the other hand if it's serviced regularly this shouldn't happen.

Brian seems to know how to buy the worm shaft & drive gear separate as he advised me of a washer from an xt (i think) that is the same part. Maybe I'm wrong & only the washers can be bought but asking him will solve any confusion.

Oh i forgot to mention: If your cable is not lubricated with the correct grade grease (ie complex lithium grease/soap base)  or is worn etc then this may be your problem.

 



-- Edited by TT-R250M on Tuesday 19th of February 2013 07:26:24 AM

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I have dismantled the speedo drive (blue/mechanical model) and need a new toothed steel drive.

I see on the net that is a a common problem and that Yamaha, in NZ and elsewhere only sell the complete unit at $180 + equiv.

You have a stainless steel replacement made and available.

I am just commenting at the toothed disc appears to be low grade steel and intended to be sacrificial to protect the brass worm drive ? The first failure occurred  by deforming the teeth and was fixed by bending them back to mesh with the cast cog.

 

This time the worm drive seized with grit and the speedo drive slightly deformed; then has worn off the flat edges that mate with the flat sides of the central spindle.

I am going to have them rebuilt with a strip of weld until I can establish that is the only problem andget a new drive - probably from you.

I simply ask two questions:

1. My worm drive only goes one way. Is it supposed to be like that is was that the cause of the problem (ie I damaged the flat faces by rolling backwards when the worm gear was seized ?)

 

2. Is it in fact a good idea to have a stiffer stainless steel drive disc because I am thinking that next time it will continue turning and destroy the more expensive clogged up componets eg the brass worm drive ?

 

any ideas gratefullly received.



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Speedo Q&A mega thread
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I wondered if anyone could answer the following please?

When I take the digital speedo cover off there is a nut followed by a washer then a disk which I guess is the magnets etc. If the bike is staionary are you supposed be able to turn the large disk behind the washer freely? My speedo seems very slow considering its in KMH.

 

Please could you tell me if the large disk is supposed to be solid if the bike is staionary?

 

Thank you

 

I have tightened the nut up but its still loose.



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RE: Digital Speedo Sensor
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Bit of a mystery this one hmm



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Hi Mike,
No, the magnet should be tight between the 2 chrome washers. If it spins freely it won't give you an accurate reading. If the magnet's complete you should be able to glue it, otherwise, Brian at Totallyttrs can supply exchange units.
Simon.

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