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Post Info TOPIC: Charging problems - Regulator/Rectifier and stator issues
vic


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stator install
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i am about rdy to get my second ttr running. i have to install a new stator. sny helpful hint or guidlines would be appreciated thnx all. this is a 2001 if that makes any difference



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Hi Vic

That's a fairly open question. Do you foresee any problems?

Have you got the full workshop manual? The diagrams etc in it are superb and it is the best starting point.

Brian



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Hey vic,

           Pretty sure i have sent you the manual but??? If not i would be happy to send it to your email address as it is too big to fit here.

Replacing the stator is a piece of p*ss and if you have the manual you should'nt run into any drama's.Also as Brian ''Brain'' smile suggested it would be better to do it by the manual  .Pm me your email and i will send it through if i haven't already.

Oh by the way most of your questions can be answered by using the search box above      I found this link with a quick search... http://www.ttr250.com/Sprag_replacement/TTR_sprag_replacement.htm

Jarrah.



-- Edited by barra8 on Monday 13th of August 2012 01:22:28 PM

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vic


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i really couldnt tell you if i did see problems. this will be the first time i have done this myself. yes barra i have the manual and thnx again. i will refer to the manual and that should help thnx

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vic


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well did stator install today. everything went smooth as far as i know. cant start the bike yet as i am still missing a few parts. mainly just the cdi box. thnx foe the advice. the manual elp heaps.

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Charging problems - Regulator/Rectifier and stator issues
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Hi all,

My 93 OE has had several regulator/rectifier failures over time.  I have a kickstart as well so I continued using the bike while waiting for parts.  Each time I've ignored this, the stator has failed and needed replacing or rewinding.

When I got the bike the wiring loom had been thoroughly butchered then taped up and there was evidence of some wires being burnt.  I have been running a UPS battery (12V 7AH) so things haven't been standard.

I recently replaced the entire wiring loom and I have now ordered a proper battery and original connecting cables as well as a 2nd hand reg/rec and my stator is off for rewinding.

Has anyone with the older TTRs (93/94) had similar problems?  Searching the web I found this page http://www19.atwiki.jp/tt-r/pages/18.html which suggests that the original reg/rec (part no. 3TJ-81960-01-00) had issues and an improved one (part no. 3TJ-81960-02-00) was made.  Looking at partzilla.com this has been standard on US TTRs (1999 - 2006).



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Regulator/Rectifier issues
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You must be good at Japanese Kimani - I struggled with Google's translation to English disbelief

Some interesting stuff on those web pages.

I found these pics of a TTR for sale - oddest TTR I have seen so far:

00011609_32979.jpg?232585989

00011609_32980.jpg?725461690



-- Edited by TTRfan on Sunday 2nd of June 2013 08:27:50 PM

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Google's translation isn't the best but the reg/rec info was pretty clear. Oh my goodness - I'm all for people customising their bikes but it should be illegal to do this to a TTR. Brings yet another tear to my eye.

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I am running and have been running the same regulator/rectifier on both the TTR's I have owned. It came from my 1994 OE that had burnt wiring and it is still running strong.

I suggest you see THIS THREAD.

Jarrah



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Hi Jarrah,

Thanks for your input and I'm glad that you've not had any issues with your 94 reg/rec.  I looked at the thread you suggested but I don't have issues with the battery discharging when the bike is off.  The issue has always been the battery discharging then the bike is running.  The problem manifests itself as follows:-

1. I try to start the bike with the magic button and the engine turns over slowly or not at all.

2. If I'm in the bush, I kick start it and continue.  If I am at home, I test the battery voltage and it is below 12V.

3. I put the battery on a charger (which also tests if the battery is faulty) and charge the battery fully.

4. I put the battery back on the bike, start the bike and measure the charging voltage. It is below 13V

5. If I replace the reg/rec with a known good one the voltage is 13.5V or above and all is well (until the problem happens again some months later)

6. If I do not replace the reg/rec the battery will discharge after a while (usually a week or so) of using the bike

7. If I continue with the faulty reg/rec the stator will eventually fail (showing a resistance of over 1.1 when tested with a multimeter according to the service manual)

8. Replace the reg/rec and stator and all will be well again (for a few months)

 

I have been over the wiring (and even replaced the wiring loom/harness) but it happened again.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I'm waiting for parts then I'll get the battery and connectors back to standard as well as a rewound stator and a working reg/rec then I'll go over the wiring again and test everything.  I'll try the tests mentioned in the thread you suggested and report back.

Thanks again.

Kimani

 



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Your problem does seem unfortunate and hard to find. I would suggest that either your battery is spiking the system from not being the specified voltage, the stator is spiking it from not being wound properly or there is a power wire that is spiking it somewhere.

I highly doubt that the 93-99 regulator is causing this or we would have HEAPS more problems on here regarding this.

Thanks for reminding me about the charging voltage- it does charge at 13.5-V. I was thinking that it should charge higher than 12V and your post reminded me of the spec so cheers. thumbsup.gif

I would like to think that buying the 99-13 stator would solve your problem but am very sceptical about that. I hope you find your problem soon.

Jarrah



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Ignition light and charging
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I take it there is an ignition light?

I'm not 100% sure as I've never seen one actually alight. Took the, now running, TTR for a decent ride yesterday. Stopping for petrol it seemed the the battery was just about flat. Started fine on the kick start. Now charged up so I'll check to see if there is a decent charging voltage. However, on other bikes I've had a non illuminated ignition bulb is a sign of a problem, as well as it staying on. So... initial question, is there one of these lights or will I be looking for a little red light which does not exist? There does, after all, seem to be a space for one on my instrument cluster.

Thanks... and I thought I'd got it sorted!



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Hi Paul

Sorry to hear of the problems.

There isn't an ignition warning light on the TTR but there is a great after-market fitting.

I bought one of Andrew Ferguson's clever little LED ignition light - see here .

Andrew will custom build a unit with your own preferred settings - I chose the following:

>15.2v  red static (over-voltage)

>13.0v  green static (charging)

>12.5v  amber slow flashing (normal battery, but not charging)

<12.5v  red 4 blips & repeat  (recommended for this output to make it absolutely distinct from the one above) 

I was prompted to fit it by the need to make up a mount for the switch for my fabulous Symtec heated grips (winter is coming!) so combined the jobs.

The pic below shows the light with the engine running - green is good and means the battery is charging. The heated grips switch is on the right of the panel.

LED_ignition_light.jpg

The pic below shows the red light flashing to show the voltage of the battery with the ignition switched on but the engine not started.

LED_ignition_light 2.jpg

The light comes with a decent length of lead and it was simple job to stick the earth wire in behind the coil earth bolt and, after stripping about half an inch of wire, the positive was hooked over the brown terminal in the ignition connector block and the block connected up again.

Brian



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Thanks, I may consider one of those.

Time to get the multimeter out...

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Well, meter says its not charging. Resistance across the stator coils is within limits. Checked connections etc. Still no joy.
One day I'll get this bike running properly!

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If the stator is working correctly, it suggests that you need a new regulator/resister. Try swapping one with someone to see if that helps.

Jarrah



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Charging problems - Regulator/Rectifier and stator issues
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Some advice needed please to support my basic electronics...

While checking connections trying to solve the above issue I came across this component which has a diode symbol on it...

It plugs in here...

*** photo not loading

I checked this with a multimeter and a basic bulb test. No current passing or bulb lighting either way round.

So, am I checking this correctly?

Is it part of the charging system?

Thanks



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RE: Ignition light and charging
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That would be the diode for the starter cuircuit  .

Your looking for the rectifier it's bigger with ribbed heatsink on it .towards the front of the frame 



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ttboof wrote:

That would be the diode for the starter cuircuit  .

Your looking for the rectifier it's bigger with ribbed heatsink on it .towards the front of the frame 


 Thanks. Yes I knew about the rectifier location. But it's good to know what the diode is for... Even if it might not be working as I would expect a diode to?



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You might notice one of the diode symbols is a zenner diode which opperates at a set voltage and it's coupled to a normal diode so would be difficult to test .

 



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Paul C wrote:

 

 Thanks. Yes I knew about the rectifier location. But it's good to know what the diode is for... Even if it might not be working as I would expect a diode to?


 One side of the diode will be roughly 20~30-V AC (alternating current), the other side of it will be 12~15-V DC (direct current). You would need to test these with the ignition switch and On/Off in the On position. However, if your starter is working correctly, this will not need testing.

The blue wire with a white stripe is AC (alternating current) and the red with a black stripe is DC (direct current).

This is the starter diode as mentioned and has nothing to do with the charging circuit.

Jarrah



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Thanks for the help guys. Will keep you posted.

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I know its off topic but what is the purpose of the starter diode?

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I found an article in an electronics magazine, which explained the use and purpose of the diode in language that I could understand. hmm


It’s to keep the fly back voltage from spiking the ECU. The diode is in parallel with the starter solenoid.

When you release the starter button, the field in the solenoid collapses and induces a voltage spike, of opposite polarity, back into the circuitry.

The speed of the collapse determines the voltage peak. It can be way more than 12 volts and it’s the opposite polarity, so the diode is there to block the backward flowing voltage to the circuitry of the ECU.  confuse

Martyn



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Well explained thank you Martyn, even my tiny brain got that :)

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Very good answer Martyn thumbsup.gif

Just like the regulator/rectifier regulates the DC (direct current), the diodes regulates the AC (alternating current).

You can see them in the diagram below (that I had to edit to include the other diode)-

yamaha-ttr250.jpg

 

th.jpg

 Merry Christmas!

Jarrah

 



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Every little helps.

Well, here's an interesting development...

Along with a few other bits n bobs I got one of Brian's light switches a few weeks ago. While I was digging around the bike electrics I fitted it. Very nice, thank you.

Well, testing the bike earlier I notice that with the light ON there is a very slow drop in voltage as the bike runs, whether ticking over or at a "running" rpm. Light OFF the volts rise to around 14.5+ volts which is higher than the battery charge.

My simple logic tells me that the charging system must be working as indicated by the OFF scenario. But there is some extra drain when the lights are on which the system can't manage? The switch just controls the headlamp, the rear stays on so this "problem" must be "north" of the area?

I guess I could just make sure I don't go out to play at night!

 



-- Edited by Paul C on Tuesday 24th of December 2013 12:51:48 PM

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Hey Paul,

Does the voltage drop below 12.3V @3500rpm with the lights on? If so it is a problem.

Are you using the standard headlight bulb?

Merry Christmas!

Jarrah



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Last I noticed the volts were heading south and it was about 13.5v. I turned it off then. Pretty sure that it's an after market front headlamp and surround (I was given the bike). The connectors going into the bulb are just 3 spade connectors and wiring in that area looks non standard, and a bit bodged if you ask me. I tidy up bits here and there as I go along. Just making a last minute Christmas prezzie on the lathe at the moment. If I get a chance I'll whip the nacelle off later and check the bulb spec.
Thanks for the help.

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OK. The bulb is a H4 60/55w. My manual says this should be a 35/36.5w item?
Everything turned off including ignition the Battery is stable at 12.96v.
Running at tickover or higher with the headlight OFF it's around 14.5v
Dipped beam on and running at tickover, or at around 3k, it quickly drops to 12.8ish then drops very slowly. A quicker drop if the main beam is on.
Flick the lights off and it jumps to around 13v then climbs very slowly at tickover ( around 0.01v a second) or a quick, but not immediate, climb back to 14.5 if revved.

Is it the bulb?

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It does not sound to me like you have a problem. Is your battery going flat? lights dim? If not, all sounds good to me.

Have you checked the main earth located at the regulator/resistor? the bolt may need unbolting, cleaning (or replacing). It would also pay to check that your battery terminals are tight and have no corrosion and that no wires are exposed, cut, burnt etc.

The headlight bulb is not the problem at least as the 60/55W bulb is standard for the blue TTR's. I am guessing you have the Open Enduro model from the headlight spec of 33/36.5W?

I think maybe you are just worrying too much as 12.8-V is more than enough to charge the battery.

Happy holiday season!

Jarrah

 



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Cheers !!

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stator issues
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ok, did all the diagnositcs in the book. thought it was the coil, replaced, not it. so i trailered bike to shop. he determined it was the stator.  $500 to replace.  350parts 150 labor.  I found an aftermarket for 80 and dove in.  Removed my skid plate, chain cover, and left side engine.  unplug stator and took inside.  Loosing the allen that holds the stator wire down snapped off at the head.  The other two that held the other wire were in good, doused with pb breaker. and the came out.  tried a easy out, not easy and not out.  Drilled the hole out, and tried to tap it with a 5m tap didnt hold. so head tommorow to a place that will tap it.  Are there any pics on how to run the cables under or next to the stator? hope this fixes my issues.   need it to go hunting !!



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Regarding the thread, it is worth keeping a 6mm thread insert kit in your workshop for such eventualities. They are cheap, easy to use and very effective. See here for a UK example of the kit.

I hope the following photos are what you need. If not, let me know what is needed and I will take some more.

Brian

Stator 002.jpg

Stator 005.jpg



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how bout a pic of the wire out of the "magneto? 1st pic bottom right black thing.

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Stator 006.jpg

It's there but you can't see it as it's under the metal retainer.

Brian



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awesome, got it, attached to case, now going to put back together


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RE: Charging problems - Regulator/Rectifier and stator issues
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The most likely cause of charging problems are a faulty rectifier/regulator or stator.

A new genuine Yamaha stator is very expensive. If proven to be faulty, I advise owners to get them rewound as its much cheaper biggrin

I have copied below the pages from the manual explaining how to check the stator.

Stator testing - page 7-25.jpg

Stator testing - page 7-26.jpg

 

 

I have a good quality multimeter to do the checks but prefer to use a more simpler method. I bought a battery voltage monitor (see here http://www.sparkbright.co.uk/sparkright-monsoon-battery-voltage-monitor.php  ) and clip the leads onto the battery and it shows what's happening as you start up and rev the TTR. If it shows the TTR isn't charging then I swap out the rectifier/regulator first with one that I know is good and, if that doesn't fix the problem, then I change the stator.

Brian



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Stator - DIY repair!
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Interesting to see how a stator is made. Anyone on here put that video up and can tell us more?

Brian



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its one of those things that's fairly straight forward the trick is getting the correct materials that can stand up to the heat and oil . i had to rewind a stator as part of my apprenticeship and tried a couple of bike stators which worked well but only lasted a couple of months as the wire I sourced was for a car alternator and the coating broke down and I haven't tried again .

its a matter of getting the same gauge wire  . when stripping down the stator count the number of turns on each pole and then re do it with the same number of turns and as shown in the video wind the three phases with a common connection  and the three other ends go to the rectifier .

One of those things that look complicated but fairly simple in design .



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Stator Replacement
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Hi All

I recently replaced the stator on my 2005 model. Thanks to the great info here it was no great drama. Thought I'd  share what happened.

Over the past year the I had problems with the idle. It would be OK for a few rides, then would be too slow and stall easily so I'd adjust it quicker, be OK for a few rides, then speed up, would slow it down etc. The bike was also getting harder and harder to start. Thought it was a carby problem, cleaned it several times, no change. Eventually it wouldn't start. No spark (I could hang onto the business end of the plug while cranking and get nothing, swapped the coil off a mates bike, still nothing). So after studying the wonderful info on this site, I replaced the stator (also replaced  the coil, Yamaha Australia reckoned it was worth doing both, a bad coil can stuff a new stator).

The result, no more idle problems (could the idle be affected by a poor spark?) and the bike starts straight up ( I feel I only need to hover my thumb over the magic button and it starts).  Happy Days!

The info that is shared on this site is awesome. I had bike mechanics wanting to spend hours sussing out the wiring loom etc, but  armed with the knowledge from this site, I was confident it was the stator and saved many dollars by not having a mechanic rubbing his chin pondering the problem (I had already been through the wiring as suggested here).

 

 



-- Edited by Pendo on Wednesday 24th of June 2015 01:10:50 AM



-- Edited by Pendo on Wednesday 24th of June 2015 01:14:06 AM

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That is certainly worth knowing as a cause of poor starting. Good result.

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Yes a good bit of info, could save a headache for someone.

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Good information - many thanks for sharing.

I wouldn't necessarily have thought those symptoms could be caused by a dodgy stator.

Brian



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RE: Charging problems - Regulator/Rectifier and stator issues
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Just to remind owners who are suffering intermittent flat battery issues that Andrew Ferguson is still selling his Monsoon Battery monitors. An excellent bit of kit that can show you what's happening on your charging system as you are riding.

Brian



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Great thread..thought I was having charging issues but showing 13.4 on multimeter at idle..turns out it was a bad battery Thanks for the manual pages!!

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with a multimeter you can test a diode you will get a reading one way but not the other it is bascally a one way switch also a stator can be refurbished by west counry windings google him very helpfull guy i have used him in the past

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Bad stator?
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So I finally popped my left side case open to inspect the stator and it's pretty ugly In there.....the bike runs other than the problem im having with the electric start ......any ideas on what's causing this or why a way to fix it ?



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Stator and Regulator. Are they the same on 'Pre Y2K White' and 'Y2K Blue' models
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Hi,

Are the stators and regulator/rectifiers the same between these models. Both my units are faulty. (Too much resistance across the stator and battery stops losing charge when regulator disconnected.) If so I'll buy them from a company in the USA called Caltric who are selling stators and regulators that 'Fits YAMAHA TTR250 TT-R250 1999-2006'.

'Totally TTRs' website meantions that a stator they are selling 'fits all models' but this site under the FAQ Y2K page talks about 'the older engine from the "white" TTR model' - so I'm worried that if engines are different the stators and regulators may be different too.

Can anyone help?

If I buy the parts I'll report back on part quality, import taxes etc to update the forum so hopefully other members can benefit from my experience.

 

Cheers

 

Tony



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Hi Tony

You will find that a lot of American TTR250 parts are listed for 1999-2006 as those were the years they were officially imported into the USA. All Balls kits are the same. But they fit all the different TTR models going back to their introduction in 1993.

In my experience the stators are interchangeable across all years and models.

Just looked at the Yamaha parts fiche and reassuringly the stator part number for the 1993 and 2004 models are the same wink

Brian



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